Shayna 0:00

Welcome to the Duo Athlete Podcast.

Frank 0:02

We're Shayna and Frank, a couple of athletes balancing training, racing, work, and life.

Shayna 0:07

This is where we talk about the honest version of endurance sports. Biking, running, relationships, and everything that happens between the workouts.

Frank 0:15

Bike, run, real life.

Shayna 0:17

Let's get started. I started the recording.

Frank 0:19

Okay.

Shayna 0:20

Shout out to Greg for his constructive feedback.

Frank 0:23

Okay.

Shayna 0:24

You want to get into it?

Frank 0:24

Let's get into it.

Shayna 0:26

Okay. So I was watching some ultra documentaries while I was on the trainer. Yeah. And a thought occurred to me where I was like, so do people like do they just believe that they can do this? And then that kind of fuels like your training? Like anything like a super long distance. Um, I think I was watching stuff about Ultra or Western States and like Courtney Dauwalter and Heather Jackson. So yeah, like do you start off like believing like no, I think I can do it, and then that kind of fuels your training? Or do you sign up for something and then you're like not really sure that you could even complete something like that? But your training reinforces the idea that like, yeah, no, like I put in hundreds of hours training for this event, like I can definitely do this.

Frank 1:26

Yeah.

Shayna 1:26

Or another thought occurred to me, can someone else make you believe in yourself?

Frank 1:33

I mean, I hope I have done that for people because I try really hard to build people up and say, Yeah, I yes, you yes. And I'm telling you right now, I know you can run a hundred miler at some point. I know that.

Shayna 1:46

A hundred mile, yeah, that seems like crazy. Like I don't feel like I'm a person that's like believing initially that I can do the thing. Like I just sign up for things out of pure emotion, out of like pure, oh my god, that looks really difficult and um I'm gonna go for it. Like it's scary. Like I feel like I'm sometimes outside of myself when I sign up for something or agree to go do something, like Marji.

Frank 2:14

Yeah, yeah, me too. I mean, somehow I got sucked into signing up for Leadville the first time on a team and then I had to panic train. You panic. So that pushed me signing up for it pushed me to train. And but you're not you know, you're not training at elevation, you're not doing those those type of workouts. So I didn't believe I could do it until I did it.

Shayna 2:42

Really? Didn't other people tell you that you could?

Frank 2:45

Yeah.

Shayna 2:46

You so you didn't believe them either?

Frank 2:48

No. No, I wanted to. Like I told you before, I didn't believe I could do it until you know the the speech, the Ken speech. Yeah. Because I was like, I'm I'm here, imposter syndrome, I got in with this team. I've been on a trainer a lot, you know, lots of hours on the trainer, and but I've never raced in Colorado.

Shayna 3:08

What year was that?

Frank 3:09

I don't even remember, 2018, 17, 18, something like that.

Shayna 3:13

Yeah.

Frank 3:13

So I was there like I'm gonna support, I'm gonna blow myself up to help my teammates, and I'm not gonna finish. And that's that's my role. That's what I'm doing. Because I didn't believe I could even finish it. Remember that. And then and then the night before the race, when I was there in the in the gym, the actual gym, you know, instead of being outside. But yeah, when when Ken said, Hey, you owe it to everyone who has supported you and to get you here, you owe it to them to get across that finish line. Then it became, okay, I'm still gonna help out as much as I can, but I'm gonna finish also. But yeah, the the training, the training definitely helped. And then other people saying, Yeah, yeah, you can do this.

Shayna 3:58

And interesting.

Frank 3:59

So what do you think?

Shayna 4:01

Well well, I don't I mean, when we got into Marji, it was more it felt more of like a s an in insane idea. Like like I was gonna train for it, but then it also just felt like an idea, like an abstract like concept. Even though I was still putting together like a training plan for it, and like as it gets closer now, it's definitely becoming real. But I don't think that I ever kind of believe I can do anything. Like I always think that it's gonna be way harder than it is, probably.

Frank 4:39

The 50k was pretty hard. Yeah, it was. It was that was I almost couldn't walk to the car. Like, don't let me sit down after a race like that anymore. Because I thought I was crippled. I don't know, I've never felt pain in my hips like that in my life. It scared me. It scared the shit out of me. I'm like, what? That I can't move my legs. I can't walk. And I'm shuffling like a 90-year-old man over the car.

Shayna 5:06

You made me run, you made me walk up and down the sm it's the smallest embankment, the smallest curb bank thing down to the pavilion. But you made me walk up and down that thing like three times trying to bring you like tacos and burritos and like a drink because you couldn't. I don't remember that at all. Oh no, it was fine.

Frank 5:23

I got to the car and I was fine.

Shayna 5:25

Yeah, that was just the training run for Marji though. See, like that, I guess I need the training to make me believe that I can do something. So I needed to run a 50K way in advance of doing Marji. Like I needed to do a 100k mountain bike race way in advance of doing Marji. And I'm like, okay, I can do I can do those two things. So I just need to put those two things together in one day and under a 22-hour cutoff on like the hardest single track that everyone keeps talking about. And it's only single track and there's no like plushy gravel like uh roads anywhere. The only road you get that's double track looks like it's sand. And yeah, yeah, that's how I make myself believe I can do something is just by putting stacking those big events together. But I also feel like I will take the borrowed belief from who in role from you, because you I asked you that like I like off the cuff a little bit, I was you know, off mic, obviously. I was like, so do you think I could be do you think I can get like top ten at one of these events? And like you responded immediately, like, yeah. And like honestly, like that did something that like kind of started clicking things in my brain, and I was like, Oh maybe I could.

Frank 6:46

I mean you have to you have to believe in yourself because the person who doesn't believe they can get top ten is never gonna do it.

Shayna 6:54

Right? Like, no, like I get that, but like at what point are you at what point are you like delusional? Like it's the it's like that game that you play, like where you try to set a goal that's so hard, that's so crazy, that even if you get anywhere near it, you're like, oh look, I'm still a s a a screaming success at this because I got somewhere in the vicinity of this crazy goal I set for myself.

Frank 7:22

I mean when I first met you, we were we take a little trip and there was some rocks on a trail in Bentonville, and you're like, No. You could you you were you're done riding. I want to walk up to the parking lot and and now look at you.

Shayna 7:37

I know, I kind of sometimes enjoy doing some rocks and like some technical some technical and un as long as I have the matches in my little brain to coordinate going over the technical stuff. Yeah, I kind of do enjoy the technical riding.

Frank 7:54

And I couldn't I couldn't run more than three miles around the neighborhood at some point. I would start hurting and feel like I'm about to die and and then I just did an ultra marathon. Just because you believed in me and we started training and we started adding the miles each week and got up to what nineteen? Yeah. And I still felt good and like and then I started I started telling myself, okay, you you can't run far when you run hard.

Shayna 8:22

Right.

Frank 8:23

Like everyone's been telling you this whole time, you gotta slow down. And I can't slow down unless I have a pacer, apparently. So I'm out there running with you and we're running slower, but I'm I can run all day. So yeah. And then I start believing, okay, maybe I can be a ultra marathon guy. You know, I'm pretty fit. I got you know, I I just wasn't doing it right. I was trying to run too fast and like I want to go out there and do a 20-minute 5K. Can you do both? That's my question. Can I go out can I sign up for a 5K right now and run until I almost puke and hurt myself, but get a like do a PR and then next weekend go do an Ultra?

Shayna 9:08

I mean I think you could. Um I think that's just I think if you did some speed work you could for sure, but you'd have to warm up first because I mean that's what I keep like I go back to the everyday ultra podcast that made a difference in our training. That that podcast literally made a difference in our training and probably inspired some of this podcast, just the uh just the sheer fact of doing it. Like we should we should really talk about training and our life with other people because I think it's helpful. But yeah, like run your easy runs easy, your long runs easy, zone two, zone one, time on feet, like all those principles of just like yeah, not trying to murder yourself on a three-mile loop, and then wonder why you can't run any faster or run any longer than that, because you're trying to put down a 630 pace the whole time instead of slowing down.

Frank 10:08

I don't even know how I got here, honestly. You don't know how you got here? I was a guy riding a local trail and working on the trails and doing stuff doing you know cross-country races, and then somehow I got into doing longer races and then gravel races, and then I thought you were the hundred miler guy. You were the Joe and Christy and the everyday ultra crew and got into your head and made you believe that you could do ultra marathons and then I'm going too. You're not you're not gonna run by yourself, I'm going too. No, but like when we when we got into Marji on, you know, thanks thanks to Greg.

Shayna 10:41

There's still like a second shout-out to Greg.

Frank 10:44

Yeah. There's still like that mystery, you know. Yeah, we you know, we're well before we got in, we were trying to get in, and then they kept saying, train like you're gonna be in. Because it'll work out.

Shayna 10:57

Yeah, you didn't believe that we were gonna get in. I believe that we were gonna get in.

Frank 11:01

We were still training like it, but I was like, I don't know. We're gonna train as if we're gonna do it, but we're probably not gonna get in, so I'm not gonna have to do it. So it's gonna be okay. I'm not I'm not terrified because we're not gonna have to run all night long and not sleep. Like I'm still scared of that. Like then the nighttime 50k that we're gonna do, like we're we're not gonna get any sleep and we're gonna be running for how many hours in the dark?

Shayna 11:23

Like Oh, you know, we're gonna be running for a minute. You're you're afraid of that? So like all the times that you've like been up since 5 a.m. and then you worked all day and then you stayed up like super late um just like working on bikes, or like you pulled an all-nighter, like you're afraid that I'm just curious about this. Like I That's a good point.

Frank 11:43

I've done yeah, I've done that kind of stupid stuff, but I I guess I'd go back to when I worked like third shift, and I would not I would come home and not sleep because I couldn't, and then I would get sick. I would feel sick, like jittery and nauseous.

Shayna 11:58

Yeah, I know that feeling.

Frank 11:59

I don't want them to feel that.

Shayna 12:00

I know the feeling. Um so let me try to give you some maybe you can have some of my belief in you that you can do it. When I did that overnight shift at the hospital. Yeah. Like the one off shift. We only had to do two overnight shifts basically, and all of us are staying up all night and we're all day shift people. That was honestly easy.

Frank 12:25

Caffeine.

Shayna 12:26

It was yeah, it was ca it was a pizza party basically. It was caffeine, Mountain Dew, and pizza, and we were on our feet and we were busy, and we're busy the whole night, and everybody's talking to each other, and I think that's now I mean, I'm not saying that you can apply the same logic to a hundred miler after you've already been running since the crack of dawn. I understand there's gonna be some tiredness and fatigue.

Frank 12:53

Yeah, is it gonna be compounded? Because you're gonna be tired anyway, and then your brain's like, dude, we're supposed to be sleeping right now, so I'm gonna make you more tired. Extra tired. More fatigued.

Shayna 13:02

Yeah, I think that's where caffeine comes in, and also, but you can you can definitely do it. So, especially for this 50k coming up, right? Like if you just break this out into tiny chunks, we don't have to start until seven o'clock at night. And I don't know if you saw the email today, but I was like paging through the race packet, and you don't even have to pick we don't have to pick our packets up until Saturday night. So we're gonna have to talk about logistics probably off camera, but we don't have to get there until Saturday night before right before the race starts, and then we can run all night. So then you just try to sleep in as late as you can on Saturday, yeah, and then use caffeine. So that and it's only one race that you have to do an overnight for, and then you can kind of take that fatigue and build on it and kind of tap back into it, I would think, for Marji, I guess. See, once again, with my own training principle of like the training is going to make me believe that I can do this, not the other way around. Like, I need reinforcement from other events, other races, like other big things that I've never done before. I need reinforcement that I can do the overnight running at Marji by doing the 50k a month prior.

Frank 14:20

So you stacked it up to where it's gonna work out for you. Where you're going. Nick hurts. So back to like believing in yourself and having other people believe in you. Like, we've we've got a buddy who's I mean, he's an amazing athlete, and he's going to an enduro on his cross-country bike, and there's all these guys that morning with their full suspension, you know, trail bikes and their full face helmets, and he's like asking me how I think he's gonna do, and I'm like, they have no idea what they're about to race against. Like they have no idea what's coming. And he's like, You always have the you know, the most optimism for me, and he won the race, you know. So I don't know if there's anyone that I've ever said, yes, you can do this, and they haven't done it.

Shayna 15:09

You know, so So you feel like encouraging people to do things is helpful?

Frank 15:14

I mean, you you kinda yeah, you kind of know that they can already, but just giving them that boost, yeah, absolutely, that helps.

Shayna 15:21

So if they were capable of it, because the mind does a powerful thing. If they are capable of it, but they don't believe that they are, they're not going to.

Frank 15:31

Well, and there's an aspect of okay, now now there's somebody out there that kind of expects me to perform and to get this done. You think so?

Shayna 15:38

And that's a factor also.

Frank 15:41

Yeah, I mean I was telling you that story the other day, like I I was at wrestling practice, I was a freshman in high school, didn't know anybody because I didn't come from the feeder system, you know, this obscure kid that just it was a walk-on team. And we're out there doing like wind sprints in the gym, and the coach all of a sudden he yells at me, Martin, you better win this race. Just singles me out. And I wasn't the fastest. Uh and I had no no business winning. It wasn't even a race. We were just doing back and forth, but it became a race as soon as he said that, because everyone else is like, no, he's not gonna win. And I'm like, Oh, yes, I am, because someone singled me out and is is watching me, you know, like the observed electron, a photon, an observed particle. Somebody's watching me and and somebody believes in me. That's what it felt like. Yeah. This guy, for whatever reason, singled me out, he believed in me, and he was trying to motivate me and push me, and I won that race. So I don't I don't know what how I did it, but I did it. And yeah, so I I mean I believe in that power of suggestion. Yeah. And like it, it just whenever I see somebody putting work in and getting faster and coming to the group rides and getting faster every time. And like Mario, like he like he loves putting all the stuff on Facebook and like he used to be. I don't know, he's a big big guy. Now he's uh he's he's put a lot of work in and like he says sometimes like people say you should just do your work in silence and you don't have to put it on Facebook. Absolutely put it on Facebook. Yeah, absolutely put it out there if you put that work in.

Shayna 17:13

Other people want to encourage you. I would think. I mean, for all the people that like to pick on other people and be bullies, I think there is probably five hundred people that really want to encourage you.

Frank 17:25

Yeah, because I mean I I just get uplifted, like my heart just fills up, you know, and that when I see somebody that's putting that kind of work in and enjoying it, and it just makes everybody around you want to do better and put more work in. And it like rising tide lifts all boats, right? So it's just positivity and it helps everyone.

Shayna 17:45

So like the commun like building a community of people like cyclists or runners or athletes in general, you think that that all I mean, obviously it all plays together where we are better for each other, like a team.

Frank 18:02

I I witness it all the time. Just just that just the emotion and the energy and everyone seems to want to build everyone else up and be happy when other people are succeeding and doing well, and it just gets infectious. And yeah, we're out there on bikes, and nobody cares what you do for a living. No, or or you know, where you come from or what your politics are. Like nobody cares. We're just out here trying to be healthy and trying to have fun and trying to support each other. It's awesome. And that's why that's why I like the group rides, and that's why I'm not shy. I mean, some people might think it's silly, leaving comments, you know, on Strava, or leaving com or you know, building somebody up, leaving hearts on stuff and just spreading it around. Like I see you, I see you putting the work in, and I'm amazed. Like you, like you were in the back, you know, last year, and now you're you know, we're doing the the little sprint, you know, fake crit on our group ride, and people are up there in the front all of a sudden, crushing it. Or somebody, you know, takes off and attacks a hill, and you're not worried about what people are gonna say, like what's he doing that? Well, I mean, everybody else follows, and it's just fun.

Shayna 19:15

It's fun, yeah. The Tuesday, the what used to be Tuesday Night Worlds, that horse that you guys are you're doing on your road rides.

Frank 19:23

That's why we made a team. That's why we made a race team. Yeah. So we can organize the supporting each other instead of just being people out here like commenting on people's races and people's rides and like good job. Well, now it's like we're we're a family. Yeah. Inside another another bigger family of cyclists, and like we all support each other. Like no one's out here saying, Oh my god, you're working out too hard, or you're showing off too much, or you're whatever.

Shayna 19:50

You know, that's yeah, we sh I mean we should probably maybe I should say more because I'm always I always feel like Yeah, you're the president.

Frank 19:57

I mean, that would mean it I mean I you say stuff to me.

Shayna 20:00

I know, I know.

Frank 20:00

Like I'm always but it means a lot to people.

Shayna 20:02

I want to tell you that I have I mean we all struggle with imposter syndrome, but I I've said this before where I'm like, where what right do I have to tell anybody anything about anything ever? I mean I should say more. I shouldn't say like good job or that's epic or because I think those things I'm like, man, that's crazy. Like they did such a good job with that.

Frank 20:21

Or yeah, I haven't I haven't ran a hundred miles yet. I'm not who am I to say good job running or whatever, you know, or even to the people that are doing hundred miles, I'm like, can I I can't comment on their stuff because I'm just who the hell am I? Well I mean knowing that somebody's watching you and supporting you, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what they've done.

Shayna 20:42

Right.

Frank 20:43

It means a lot. Like I'm everyone will say, Frank, Frank says you yeah, you can do anything, anything. You can do this race. I mean, I've tried to encourage people to race, you know, my whole career because I just like having my friends with me, and I like I know you're gonna enjoy it, and I know it's gonna be good for you, and we're gonna get to spend time together. I mean, I'm a little selfish in that aspect, but you know, I've gotten people to come to the snake, right? I've gotten people to race to drive down to Georgia or drive down to Florida, or you know, yeah. Some of these guys that are don't race anymore, they're I'm you can you can pick out everybody or everyone that's in Ember right now, and at some point I've got them at to a race.

Shayna 21:26

You have, yeah.

Frank 21:27

And they've enjoyed it, and they have those memories, and you know, I have those memories of them. And yeah, I can talk people into if you give me enough time, I can talk people into some stuff.

Shayna 21:39

So you are the guy that everyone is borrowing some belief from at some point.

Frank 21:44

I would love that.

Shayna 21:45

Yeah, like at some point it's Frank encouraging you, and you s have an an a two percent at least two percent greater chance in your own brain, you're like, okay, yeah, maybe I could do it. Like maybe I could. And like this also like just popped in my head. Too where I'm seeing posts like I don't know when this episode's gonna come out, but like Courtney Dauwalter the course record at Hard Rock and like she made a post about it about like uplifting other women and how like there's more women like trying to like run or break records or just do ultras in general or maybe we just make the sign up percentage greater, like that kind of community too, where you watch one person do it and you're like oh well am I am I really any different? Like I feel like I could like maybe I could do it, maybe I could run a hundred miles, maybe I can you know get up there in the rankings, like so yeah, just like the whole like belief system, I guess, and like you watch other people I mean because that's where it's like a it kind of snowballs, right? Where you just start with this like crazy little inkling, like wherever it came from in your head where you're like, I think I can do this really hard event, and then your training kind of backs it up, and then your friends kind of back you up, and then you actually start to believe those things about yourself that you can do hard events, like you can do like for me, I can do like a 100k mountain bike race. Like, I'm actually looking forward to doing Wilderness. Um I guess if this comes out after Wilderness, we'll see how what my response is after I get done with the race. But I'm definitely looking forward to doing that because it's gonna be my second 100k mountain bike race. So I kinda have this like, oh, I finished the last one and I feel like I could do better. So like let's go, let's go faster.

Frank 23:45

I mean you when you finished that you're you were like I could I could push a little harder.

Shayna 23:48

I think I could have pushed a little harder. I was just scared of the distance, like it's so di it's so hard to wrap your head around something that you've never done before.

Frank 23:55

Yeah.

Shayna 23:56

It's so hard to optimize something or make a fueling plan or just like if you've never literally gone that distance before.

Frank 24:02

You're stacking blocks, right? You're stacking experiences on top of each other, and then and then you look back and you're like, holy shit. I had no idea that I'd ever be here. But it's not one giant leap. It's it's taking steps, taking steps to get there. Like how many times did I do Leadville? And and I mean, people are probably sick of hearing about Leadville, but I don't think so. What point what point did I s believe that I could get a big buckle? Because it because it wasn't until the last until I actually did it.

Shayna 24:30

I was like, I don't think you believed you were gonna get a big buckle until you were eight hours and thirty minutes in and realized that you were gonna make it before nine o'clock.

Frank 24:39

I was literally running off my friends and and the people that support me telling me I could. That's I believed in my friends more than I believed in me. Like I don't I was making excuses for myself until right, until I had ten minutes left or and I was coming up the boulevard. Yeah. So and man, that's tough whenever you don't you don't know all day. You don't know all day if you're gonna get it done. And then when you finally realize I'm I'm actually gonna get this done, I couldn't hold it in. And I told you I was I was doing the thing. I did that like four or five times before I, you know, just just the emotion just yeah overtook me and uh like no one was around, so it didn't matter. But and then I finally was like, you know what, it's it's okay to be emotional. Yeah, it wouldn't matter.

Shayna 25:30

It's okay to be emotional, it's okay to have emotions and to show emotions, feel emotions. You don't have to like tamp all that down.

Frank 25:39

Yeah, don't hold it inside.

Shayna 25:40

Yeah, that's like a a an announcement for everybody listening. It's okay to have emotions, it's literally fine. You can cry. I it's there's something about watching the Leadville 100 run, that start line. It doesn't matter how many times I've watched that race go off, like I'm watching a documentary, I'm watching something about David Roche, I'm watching something about Anne. Like it doesn't, it literally doesn't matter however many times I've watched the start of that race, like it does something to me. Yeah.

Frank 26:12

And then that scares me. I love that.

Shayna 26:14

I mean that but that scares us. I know, but that means like I'm probably like I'm gonna want to s I'm gonna have to get in the lottery. I'm gonna have to go do a qualifier, I'm gonna have to get in the lottery for like I'm like I have all these like if if something like that stirs that much emotion in you without you even putting you're not even playing like you're not even in the race. You there's no plan there, I don't even have a plan except for raw emotion of whatever that star line is doing on those videos. So I'm like, I think I have to do that. But that's scary. Why do I want to do that? Why do I want to punish myself over here?

Frank 27:08

I just realized kind of a prerequisite for me to to add someone in my circle is like if you if you get emotional like that, like watching a movie or or you know, experiencing something that's heavy or powerful, and you eyes get a little glassy like mine do, I'm like, yeah, we're best friends now. Because um I can't I can't hold it in either. Well, I think I want to feel and express all all the emotions and I feel like it's a lot of people, it's just Greg. Shout out third time to Greg. He gets like that. And it's great.

Shayna 27:47

And he doesn't want to be outed on the audio.

Frank 27:49

He's getting outed. I don't care.

Shayna 27:51

For having emotions.

Frank 27:52

Yeah. He uh he says that to me all the time. I got a little choked up just thinking about it. And I love that.

Shayna 27:58

Yeah, I mean it's it's fine. I think you should have uh I mean it means it's you're doing something that's meaningful.

Frank 28:04

Yeah.

Shayna 28:05

However which way your emotions are rolling at the moment, something inside you is attaching meaning to it.

Frank 28:12

So Yeah, so this you think we're gonna be okay on this nighttime run?

Shayna 28:18

Yeah, I think yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Like, okay, think about this. Like it's hot as hell in southern Indiana, southern Illinois right now.

Frank 28:28

Like we Yeah, my shoes are getting filled up with sweat. Right, we're on these runs.

Shayna 28:33

Drenched in sweat. It looks like someone dumped buckets of water on us while we're running. So we're gonna run at night, which is still gonna be humid, but not as hot. So I'm looking forward to that.

Frank 28:44

Um it's gonna be daylight for a little while when we start running.

Shayna 28:47

Yeah, we started at seven, so I think we'll have about an hour and a half before it's technically totally dark.

Frank 28:53

So we can work up if it gets wet and then it's gonna cool off.

Shayna 28:58

Yeah, we I mean we should feel good. But yeah, like probably an extra shirt or something. But yeah. I'm looking forward to it. Like, and yeah, I think we will be fine. We can sleep in. We can sleep in, take our time, we can drive out there. Like, it's not that long of a drive. Get some caffeine, do the We're not gonna sleep. Maybe I'll take a nap for like the second time in my life ever. I'll take a nap.

Frank 29:19

You're allowed to take everybody out there, you're allowed to take rest days and naps.

Shayna 29:24

I can't take naps.

Frank 29:25

Like if you are if you are tired and you just need to sit down.

Shayna 29:29

I can't do that either.

Frank 29:30

And you can fall asleep, do it. I have to be so good for your brain.

Shayna 29:34

I don't have to be so incredibly exhausted to do that. I'm not allowed to sit down or take naps. I can't do it.

Frank 29:39

Because you feel like you're supposed to be doing something.

Shayna 29:41

I always have to be doing something. Yes.

Frank 29:43

Even if it's wrong. You have to be doing something.

Shayna 29:46

I have no, I have so many things to do all the time. That's not that I'm supposed to be doing something is I have things to do.

Frank 29:51

Yeah.

Shayna 29:52

They have to get done. All of them. All of the tasks that float around in my brain all the time have to get done.

Frank 29:58

Yeah, I I used to have all kinds of free time and I would take naps and I would just mosey every now and then and get comfortable. You comfortable?

Shayna 30:07

Yeah, you're comfortable? No, you're not.

Frank 30:09

No, now I have all the things to do too. I have bikes to work on and we have gear to to try out, and hey, we just bought some lights, right? We just ordered some lights.

Shayna 30:19

Yeah, we didn't order some lights. Yeah.

Frank 30:20

I mean this is you have to test them out.

Shayna 30:22

Yeah. This is partially your fault, but how is it my fault? Because you're the one that starts this whole like, no, I think you can do it. If you stop convincing me that I could do like really low advance, then we would stop training for you.

Frank 30:36

You have to be careful on what you decide you think you might want to do because I'm never gonna say no.

Shayna 30:42

Well, I'm never gonna sit down then, and we're never gonna stop training for shit.

Frank 30:45

That's okay. I mean there's gonna be life after Marji. Well, you know, I wanna do what do I want to do?

Shayna 30:50

Yeah, you have to figure that out. What do you want to do after Marji?

Frank 30:53

I want to do an Iron Man.

Shayna 30:54

Hmm.

Frank 30:55

I already told you that.

Shayna 30:56

That's true. I was making sure that you were 'cause I like those people too. I know you gotta tell the audience though.

Frank 31:01

There's a whole group of people out there doing tries that we don't get to hang out with and we don't get to share stories with you.

Shayna 31:06

I know they're so cool.

Frank 31:07

They are.

Shayna 31:08

We did hang out with a couple of them.

Frank 31:09

But have you ever have we met somebody who who does tries who's not like the most uplifting, yeah, you should come out and and yeah and do it with us. And yeah, absolutely you can do this.

Shayna 31:19

Yeah, they always want us to come out to like their group rides and stuff. But anyway, the um we're getting off we're getting off on a tangent.

Frank 31:27

Were we?

Shayna 31:28

A little bit about tries, yeah, like life after margin. But we were about to talk about the nighttime 50k.

Frank 31:33

Yeah.

Shayna 31:33

And the gear that we were messing with.

Frank 31:39

How did we settle on the lights again? Did you ask your AI companion how the best lights are?

Shayna 31:47

So I thought that you sent me the ultraspire.

Frank 31:52

I think I asked my AI buddy or Google or somebody Googled or researched.

Shayna 31:58

We'll just call it research at this point. Somebody researched something. You sent me the UltrAspire. Um, so I saved that as a ta one of the 35 tabs that's open in my web browser on my phone. It was still in there because that's where I save things.

Frank 32:12

Yeah, there's a hundred tabs open in your brain.

Shayna 32:13

Uh for real. But and yeah, and then there's thirty-five on the phone, and there's probably another 17 on the laptop and another twelve on my work laptop. But anyway, the that was on there. And then I started stalking some I mean not stalking, but like zooming in, like pausing like race footage and like zooming in on headlamps and waistlines. Like, what are you wearing? Like, I want to see like what's the brand name on them? Like, okay, that's an UltrAspire. I'm like, oh no, that's a they're wearing a Petzl on their head. Like, that's a Petzl.

Frank 32:44

That's I got this question in my head now. What like I I always wonder if the people are using the thing they want to use or if they're using the thing they're getting paid to use.

Shayna 32:56

Well, I don't see any other logos on these guys that indicate that they're sponsored. Like some of them have like logos on their packs and like they have like I don't know, like I don't see like if I went to the UltrAspire website, I the first thing I saw was just the UltrAspire website, not the athlete that they're sponsoring, right?

Frank 33:17

Like I mean I had a discussion with a with a buddy about tires and the question kept coming up, like, so Keegan is sponsored by Maxis. He's going to try to break the record and he's using these tires, and I want to use these same everybody wants to use those same tires, but you know, I have friends saying those are garbage. Those they're not as fast as these tires. And I'm like, okay, why would he not use the fastest tires he possibly could? Well, he's being paid to use these tires, and he's Keegan, so he can overcome a slower tire and still and still break the record and still okay. I don't know, like why wouldn't you want every possible Yeah, or do you use the fastest tires and you take a yellow paint pen and you put Maxis on them?

Shayna 34:06

No, I don't think Maxis will let them do that. I feel like I feel like sometimes as an athlete we just talk shit about a brand because we had a bad experience.

Frank 34:18

Yeah.

Shayna 34:18

But you would have to show me like rolling resistance, like spreadsheets, you'd have to show me tests, like you'd have to show me why you'd like to.

Frank 34:24

I mean it's out there. It's all out there.

Shayna 34:27

I know. I mean I'm not a really geek out on it and you know I'm just saying I'm not really interested in like the whole tire thing because I will put some knobby mountain bike tires on my mountain bike and still ride it.

Frank 34:38

You drive me crazy because I want to put the I want to put the best slash lightest tires on your bike and you're like no.

Shayna 34:46

Yeah, no, because you know why? Because the first route that my back tire slips off of and I slam my knee. And then I don't want to race anymore. I don't care about how fast it doesn't matter how fast that tire is, because if I don't finish the race, it's irrelevant. If I get pissed off and injured and I don't finish, it's irrelevant how fast that tire was because I'm not I'm I will be done.

Frank 35:12

Yeah, I mean we can deep dive into that, but it doesn't matter, you know, your size and how you are on the bike and transitioning to a full suspension bike and and not being able to, you know, trans you know put your weight where it needs to be or not not being used to that and slipping out on wet roots.

Shayna 35:30

Yeah, I mean I'm still learning,

Frank 35:32

but now you've got a knobbier tire in the back than in the front, which is

Shayna 35:35

it's not knobbier than the I'm gonna argue with you. I'm gonna buy you to the death of a broken.

Frank 35:40

You're set up on your new carbon rims the exact way you have them on your bike right now, so it can't be my fault. Like it's gonna be so fast because it's because your back wheel weighs like 30 pounds by itself. It does. And every time I pick your bike up and put it on the rack, it pisses me off. Like, why is this back end so heavy on this bike? And I feel bad because then I put mine on the rack and it's like, oh my gosh, she is lugging this back wheel around.

Shayna 36:07

Well, it's also got a aluminum rear.

Frank 36:12

It's all heavy.

Shayna 36:13

It's a well, half of the bike is carbon, half of the bike is aluminum because Yeah, but that aluminum rear triangle I don't think is adding a whole lot versus a carbon triangle.

Frank 36:21

But that back wheel, we're not keeping that wheel.

Shayna 36:24

We got off on a tangent again about bikes.

Frank 36:27

That's okay.

Shayna 36:28

I'm pretty sure we're talking about lights.

Frank 36:30

Okay, let's get back to lights then.

Shayna 36:32

Lights. Camera. Actually, I'm just kidding. Um, we were talking about the what was I geeking out about the oh, I was um you got me UltrAspire. Yeah, well, I was trying to have a conversation about lights, and we're now we're talking about mountain bike tires. I mean, that makes sense for given our content.

Frank 36:53

But let's get back to the nighttime 50k and we're gonna test out these lights.

Shayna 36:57

I know because well you had a tab open in my brain that was.

Frank 37:00

I have no idea if I'm gonna wear a backwards hat or um some kind of halo to put this headlamp on.

Shayna 37:08

I had thought of that because I tried to wear a halo hat again with the gear and fiddling with it. I wear a halo like baseball cap because we sweat buckets out here in the Midwest. And I yeah, I love watching everybody's like YouTube videos of them running around the desert and you don't see a glistening of sweat on them at all because it's just evaporates into the ether because they don't it doesn't ever stick to them, and then we're trying to figure out what kind of halo headbands. Yeah, you can actually get cooled down by sweating out there, but not here. So we have to figure out something different. So it's a halo. Maybe we should move out there, move out in the desert. Let me get one of those remote jobs and then we can move out there. So the headband with a hat with a headlamp doesn't work. Tried that. Something gave me a headache, it doesn't fit on there right, and the the sweat and then the bugs and all the other things that were going on. Plus the hands.

Frank 38:09

You had a headlamp that was heavy?

Shayna 38:10

Is that did that attribute any of the Well, probably 'cause it was just like my backpacking one that I had in the gear closet.

Frank 38:18

So I was just like, Yeah, it's meant to walk in, not run in, and uh and you gotta so it bounces, so you gotta get it so tight that it squeezes your brain.

Shayna 38:26

Basically. So anyway, I was but I didn't want to mess with the ball cap either. So then I ordered a wide, a super wide halo air headband that just came in today. So I'm gonna try that. If we even use a headlamp, because if we use a waistlight and No, we're using a headlamp.

Frank 38:49

Well it's that waistlight's- I think it's the same concept as riding your bike with just a bar light and not a helmet light. And you can't see around corners and you can't see the holes, and you got shadows. I think if you have the pack light or the waist light and a helmet and a headlamp, then you're not gonna have the shadows.

Shayna 39:10

Okay, but I didn't like kind of And we're not gonna fall down. I know, but I was watching the videos on the Ultra Spire that 800, like the premium one, and it makes the shadows for you. Like there's two floodlights and one spotlight. It is the same as the bikes where we have But it's it's still coming from one spot, right? I know, but it has like several lights that hit the ground for you. I know that is exactly why we're gonna go test it out at the 50k, and we're not just gonna throw some random gear on at Margy. And this really wouldn't be a big deal except we're trying to train in the middle of summer when there's like sixteen hours of daylight.

Frank 39:43

This is this is fun because I have no idea how it's gonna work. Like, like I wanna wear a cap or some kind of you know, to keep the sweat. I like I like my little halo cap, but you can't have a ball cap with a headlamp.

Shayna 39:56

No, and that doesn't work.

Frank 39:57

I tried to it's gonna create a shadow, right?

Shayna 39:59

It does make a giant shadow, and I tripped over a bunch of freaking roots over at Scales Lake.

Frank 40:04

And you're gonna wear a ball cap or a cap backwards.

Shayna 40:07

I don't like that either.

Frank 40:08

Chad out there running. No, we're not gonna do that either.

Shayna 40:12

No, I don't like that. No, because I have headphones on. The shocks. Headphones. If I if I wear them, then the hat and the that's a whole yeah, that's a whole ordeal. That's why I ordered a headband, because I don't want sweat in my eyeballs, but I also want to accommodate a headlamp if we can test it out. And I think I'm gonna test that whole setup out, even if it's in the middle of the day, because we're still gonna have to make adjustments. Even if we don't ever turn the lights on, just getting the fit, we're gonna have to get the fit right before the 50k, right? Like even if we like literally never turn the lights on, we're gonna have to fit 'em uh fit em up.

Frank 40:48

I mean, maybe just one race is not gonna be enough, but it's gonna have to be enough.

Shayna 40:52

It's gonna yeah, we're gonna have to.

Frank 40:53

I mean, we need to use this stuff for a year and trust it, but we're just gonna have to go with it.

Shayna 40:57

I mean, we can try it out. We mean if we didn't pick the middle of summer to do a giant training block, if we had the lights already over the winter, that would have been different. But unless we stay up till midnight and then go test lights out, but I think our whoop recovery score would yell at us for doing that.

Frank 41:14

So I mean we can still do it. I think that would be fun. I mean test it out on a trail that we know, you know.

Shayna 41:18

Go test it out on Angel Mounds where you're gonna break your ankle anyway.

Frank 41:22

Yeah, I mean or scales. I mean Yeah. If it's if they're good lights, it's gonna look like daylight in front of you anyway.

Shayna 41:28

Yeah, hopefully. Or at least I mean, at least illuminate enough to where you can see the roots and stuff. But that the video is very convincing that it's supposed to help prevent like tunnel vision and like so do you have you seen athletes using these lights?

Frank 41:44

Because you were about to say that and I interrupted you.

Shayna 41:46

Oh, the UltrAspire? Yes, I have. Yeah, I've zoomed in on race footage and I've I s literally seen people using the UltrAspire um waist light, and then I have seen some using the Petzl headlamp. I don't think I could get some I see some people using both, but I could never get zoomed in quite enough on like when they come running into the aid stations and you get like that moment of like a little bit of ambient light, and you can kind of see them and you can kind of see like someone else has a regular headlamp on and shining on them when they come out. Yeah, like you can kind of see the brand or whatever. I don't think I could ever nail down what the brand name was of a couple of people that I saw running with both, but according to my research, that Petzl that I ordered is probably too allegedly too much, but I really wanted the dynamic lighting in case it ended up being the only light.

Frank 42:35

I mean, there's never uh too much lighting, that's not a thing.

Shayna 42:37

I know. Well there's uh also just lighting money on fire and throwing it into a pit.

Frank 42:42

So Well, you want your light and all your stuff to last all night. Yes all day, all no, all night. All night and you can get to the biggest.

Shayna 42:49

Like you want your Garmin to last and all day and all night. Not give me any trouble like my like that pack.

Frank 42:57

And we don't need like extra battery packs for this race.

Shayna 43:00

We should not, we shouldn't we shouldn't.

Frank 43:03

Yeah. Because it's supposed to last eight, nine hours on high.

Shayna 43:07

Right. Well, yeah, the the waistlight, uh that's what I'm saying. Like, if we run the headlamp on like not high, or we just use it as like supplemental to the waistlight, they should both last like plenty like long enough. Like well.

Frank 43:24

Should be fine. We're gonna be able to to report on these lights at some point.

Shayna 43:30

We will definitely report back on or we'll we'll just keep reporting on this gear and make gear recommendations based on real experience and not sponsor based on real experience and not sponsors. Not being paid by anybody to buy their gear or wear their gear or say how good it is. Like no, I'm just trying to do my own research and not trip over roots and break my ankle and not get sweating my eyeballs. And I'm real tired of getting chafed by my pack. So I'm gonna replace that too. Again, just take all my money And just launch it.

Frank 44:02

I mean it's a good thing that that you've had some time with that pack and you've notice what it does to you. I notice that I had to how it fits and because can't stand it. 50 miles of that rubbing holes in your skin wouldn't be good.

Shayna 44:16

Well, I mean I had like thirty-three miles of it and I thought it was like a one. That's the thing. Kept trying to make excuses for it too. I'm like, oh maybe it's just like a one-off thing. Maybe I'll blame my sports bra. I'll replace my sports bra. I nope, it's still rubbed raw. Like there's literal brown scar lines.

Frank 44:35

You get scars on your back.

Shayna 44:37

On my back from this pack. And it's not from like I like to run in a sports bra only with the pack on because it's hot. Again, like the seventh time I've mentioned it's hot. But it also did when I had a shirt on when I did Oak Oak Mountain. It chafed right through my shirt.

Frank 44:54

I mean you got some weird like m back muscles on the beside your spine that stick out like three inches.

Shayna 45:00

I got back abs. Okay. You got back abs, yeah. Yeah. I got muscles back there.

Frank 45:05

Yeah. If we're ever in a plane crash and I'm trying to survive, I'm I'm eating those things.

Shayna 45:15

Strange.

Frank 45:16

That's what I think about when I'm running behind you. What am I going to eat first?

Shayna 45:21

Remember you remember our friend that called you a stalker on our Strava?

Frank 45:25

Yeah, that that video that I took that like it looked like I was chasing you.

Shayna 45:28

Yeah, now you're a stalker and a cannibal.

Frank 45:31

I don't know how to I'm supposed to be taking a video of you and us and we're doing all the things now and yeah, remember to pull the phone out and it's all sweaty and procedure hurting.

Shayna 45:43

We don't post it anywhere.

Frank 45:44

Hey, did you take any video? No.

Shayna 45:45

I know we don't post it anywhere. It goes on straw, but we don't post it on our social media account that I made. That's fine.

Frank 45:50

We're going to.

Shayna 45:51

Okay. I'm sure we are. We keep talking about it.

Frank 45:54

So what pack did you settle on now?

Shayna 45:57

What pack did I settle on? The well I ordered it. I haven't tried it on yet. But I ordered two different sizes because I'm in between size. Of course I'm in between sizes. Why couldn't I just fit in? Why am I scared to do stuff like that?

Frank 46:09

People do that all the time. Like order different two different pairs of shoes and oh I'll be able to send one back.

Shayna 46:14

Well yeah, you just send one and uh no, I mean it's okay, so it's REI. You can send it back for like a year.

Frank 46:20

If their membership have never been an REI person and I just signed up because I bought one of the lights from there, and it's like, hey, give us uh thirty more dollars and you can be a member and I want to be a member.

Shayna 46:32

I don't know what you get from that, but Well, they're a co-op, so you kind of get voting rights on their board and you get membership benefits, you get extra coupons on their sales. I like being an REI member. I've been an REI member for a year.

Frank 46:48

I don't know that a normal person could go in there and buy anything for the longest time. And I don't know if I still know that or not.

Shayna 46:55

What do you mean?

Frank 46:55

Like someone who's not a member.

Shayna 46:57

Yeah.

Frank 46:57

You don't have a card, you don't have they're not you're not in their system.

Shayna 47:00

Yeah, you can buy stuff. And you can go in there and just Yeah, you can buy things. You just can't buy their member only stuff, and sometimes they have like used gear that's like member only. I don't know, they have some member only stuff and you have to.

Frank 47:13

It always felt like Costco or Sam's. Like, yeah, you can come in here and walk around and look at stuff.

Shayna 47:17

But yeah, but it's a one time fee though. You don't have to pay yearly. Like you pay one time now you're a member of the co-op and it's thirty dollars of lifetime membership. As far as I understand, because I paid like one time and it wasn't thirty dollars, but it was many years ago. So it's probably inflation and they had to raise their membership prices. But yeah, so you get rewards and you can return the things. I have a very generous return policy. That's why I ordered from there. I ordered two different sizes and I'm just gonna try it on. Unless you wanted to drive up to I mean we could drive and go try stuff on, but it's like a two hour road trip in any direction to find one. Nashville, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Louisville.

Frank 47:59

Yeah, two hours away. Any direction.

Shayna 48:02

Any direction to find an REI. So I just ordered it and then just send one back.

Frank 48:05

So when you send that one back, does it go on the someone's use this rack?

Shayna 48:10

No, it'll go on a new one because I'm not gonna like I'm not gonna try it on and wear it on the trail. Like I'm gonna just try it on and see how it fits.

Frank 48:18

What about shoes? Like you try your you gotta go on a trail run and get your shoes all dirty and dusty and muddy, maybe and I mean people have returned. I don't like these. These don't fit. I'm gonna send them back. Then what?

Shayna 48:27

You should really re read their return policy because it's pretty generous.

Frank 48:30

So they send the shoes to uh someplace to wash them and get the stank out of them.

Shayna 48:36

Have you ever we need to go in more REIs and you can wash you can look at the used gear. They're not washed, it's still got mud on it and it's still got dirt on it.

Frank 48:42

Well that's what I mean. If you if you try them and send it back, then then they go on the this is used stuff.

Shayna 48:48

If you actually use it.

Frank 48:49

Just shoes or something you actually get dirty.

Shayna 48:51

If you like, yeah, if you legitimately get it dirty, yeah. Okay. If it doesn't work for you, I'm pretty sure it's like they have like no questions asked. Like just send it back if it doesn't work for you. It might just be for store credit or something. I don't know.

Frank 49:06

I haven't heard the fine print, but I was trying to order some lights that were a little bit different than yours so we don't get them all mixed up, but yeah. I did not like the green one. So we both got orange, and then I was trying to get that other light, you know, that I thought was pretty cool. That has the magnet and all the LEDs you can take apart and and and hang them everywhere and but it's the battery packs were sold out, so we have exactly the same size. Did you know there was an eight fifty instead of an there's an eight hundred for the waist light, yeah. And then there's an eight fifty. The eight fifty was cheaper.

Shayna 49:41

Yeah, because it's not like uh it doesn't run as long, right?

Frank 49:44

Yeah.

Shayna 49:44

There was something different about it. Because like the eight hundred is like a solstice or something.

Frank 49:48

Cause usually you're going after the most the most lumens you can afford, the longest runtime.

Shayna 49:54

Right.

Frank 49:54

And that's how they market it. It's probably bigger numbers.

Shayna 49:57

Yeah, so that's probably a sweet spot in there with how many lumens it takes in like the runtime. Because if you take like our NiteRider lights that are twelve hundred lumens, yeah, you're not running a NiteRider light at twelve hundred lumens all night long.

Frank 50:10

No.

Shayna 50:11

You're gonna run it for like an hour like that, and that's it.

Frank 50:14

If you put it on flash mode, it'll r it'll run for a month.

Shayna 50:17

For sure. But it'll even run after you lose it in a field.

Frank 50:23

Yeah, so if you're doing a short ride and you and you want to see what it feels like for it to be seriously daylight in front of you, yeah. Then you turn your head headlamp, your helmet light, and your bar light on as high as possible. Yeah, it's a help. Awesome. And then you just wish it could be like that for four hours.

Shayna 50:39

But yeah. I think outbound lighting for mountain bikes is kind of that's like the other Margy go to is outbound lighting, but uh we really, really should not be on a bike when the sun starts getting out.

Frank 50:53

I was getting ready to say that because we thought we were gonna have to order these lights and then we realized No, yeah, like I did a pr like a rough estimate pacing plan.

Shayna 51:01

I'm like, no freaking way do we need to be out there when the sun's going down. Like we need to be running before then.

Frank 51:09

By the way, I was super stressed when we were trying to sign it for Marji, and because you you've got like four seconds to do it.

Shayna 51:16

Yeah.

Frank 51:17

And you have to have a fast connection and you have to have luck. You better and then it turns out if you have a good story or if you wait around long enough.

Shayna 51:26

You better quit.

Frank 51:27

What?

Shayna 51:28

The transfer page. That's the only way in.

Frank 51:30

Yeah.

Shayna 51:30

Yeah. Better come in.

Frank 51:32

I'm just saying when when Todd says train like you're gonna get in, and people say that, he means it.

Shayna 51:37

He's gonna yeah, he means it and you're gonna manifest it for yourself somehow, somehow.

Frank 51:41

Yeah, if you're showing your workouts and you're training for this hundred mile race, you're gonna get in. Absolutely.

Shayna 51:48

Through the transfer page.

Frank 51:49

Yeah. So what do we have we have to we have to run at the beginning of the race to get on our bikes? And that's it's like a half a mile run. Oh no. In our bike shoes. Oh my god. Oh, in bike shoes.

Shayna 51:59

Oh no.

Frank 52:00

Yeah, and then we're so it's like. Is that why I see a couple of guys out for the big thing? Because it's run, it's run bike run. We run and then we bike and then we run. It's a triathlon.

Shayna 52:11

No, that's a big one. That's still a duathlon.

Frank 52:15

Huh?

Shayna 52:15

It's not a swim.

Frank 52:17

Okay.

Shayna 52:17

That's still a duathlon.

Frank 52:19

Okay. So when I start swimming and doing XTERRAS and stuff again, I want you to like tell me I can do this and like, yeah, I'll support you. And I think you can do an Iron Man because I don't believe it right now.

Shayna 52:36

Okay, well, I have I do keep telling you you can do an Iron Man. Yes, you can do one. But I want you to train for it. And you keep signing up for stupid gravel events. I d you need to stop it.

Frank 52:49

I do like the gravel races though. I do like them.

Shayna 52:53

I know you do. And I love that for you. And I would also love for you to do an Iron Man, but I think that your choices of timing with events is not optimal.

Frank 53:06

I don't even I'm I'm worried that I'm gonna be mad because it's like three thousand dollars to sign up for an Iron Man.

Shayna 53:14

Oh my gosh, why is that so much?

Frank 53:16

It's not, it's probably fifteen hundred or something, but it's really exclusive. It feels exclusive, and that makes me mad right away. It makes me mad. And I don't know if I can explain it, but anytime something is exclusive, it makes me mad.

Shayna 53:30

Elitist or exclusive?

Frank 53:32

I don't know if I'm using the right word.

Shayna 53:34

I'm just asking. Are we just gonna be spicy about it? Let's be spicy because it makes me mad. Is it elitist? Like is it are you just what are you charging?

Frank 53:42

I don't like the five hundred, six hundred dollar lifetime Leadville entry.

Shayna 53:47

I know that's that seems like a lot of things.

Frank 53:49

You're already paying five thousand dollars to go out there for two weeks, but that's five, six hundred dollars. This is twelve, fifteen hundred dollars, you know. And I know they're doing a lot. I know they're out there doing a lot. Like, remind me, because I really don't know. But you always remind me of how much they're out there doing and how and why it costs so much and why it might cost so much.

Shayna 54:10

I mean, what they're it depends on how far apart they have, like their aid stations. Like I can understand it for ultras because they have an aid station. Like if they can get one every five or six miles, like there's literally an aid station stocked every five or six miles. I'm sure that costs.

Frank 54:24

Yeah, and they shut down half the downtown of wherever city they're in, and they and they have the firefighters and the rescue and the rescue swimmers and all that crap because you're out there in the river and over.

Shayna 54:35

I mean, yeah, and like I mean, just from our small experience trying to organize like dragons back, I mean, just not even RFID timing, but just a subscription to do timing, all that star starts to add up. Like I kind of showed you guys a spreadsheet today that kind of like explains that like how you could escalate a um paid event like very quickly. So if instead of there being volunteers, if I had to pay a staff to do an event, like and you have to do it off of entry fees, basically. So yeah, like I I get that, but all but also the amateurs are always the ones footing the bill and like the pros are there getting kind of sponsored in, but kinda trying to make their own living off of sponsors and can you do a one and done Iron Man?

Frank 55:25

Should I do a half Iron Man first? Should I give up on the whole thing and and pick a hundred mile race to do mountain bike race or something, or should I start just running fifty mile running races or I don't know what to do? Like I don't I don't I don't want it to be like a train for this thing and then I realize I could walk this entire marathon the last half the last part of this and like this is there a cutoff?

Shayna 55:54

I don't I don't know. I don't think anyone should train for something that they that they don't like the training for. So if you end up hating the training for it, I don't think you should be doing it.

Frank 56:06

I'm training for right now though, I feel like, with this running half marathons every weekend, and you convincing me that I could do an ultra, which that was my first marathon on the trailer. So now I now I know I can do a marathon, right? Yeah, and I know I can ride 200 to 7,000 miles, whatever it is, and and I'm a decent swimmer. The thing that scares me is that anxiety that I get in open water. So that's like this big monster that I need to conquer. That's part of it.

Shayna 56:39

So what if you get a coach?

Frank 56:40

Like a swimming coach?

Shayna 56:41

Yeah, for like the open water part.

Frank 56:44

I mean that would that I mean that might help.

Shayna 56:45

I mean, you're gonna need yeah, so like you need we're talking about everybody supporting each other if you need support in that manner, because I am gonna be the problem last person that's gonna be able to help you with open water anxiety because I don't even like water. So I don't know.

Frank 57:03

I mean, I was teaching you how to swim and you're picking it up really quickly and we were in open water.

Shayna 57:07

I know it's because I'm athletic. Just because I'm athletic doesn't mean I like doing it. Right.

Frank 57:12

So and I learned Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should.

Shayna 57:16

Yeah. Well, and then I I could tell you some lessons I learned from about the time that I was old enough for memories and riding horses that just because I was good at a certain discipline doesn't mean I like that discipline. And it's too bad I didn't stand up for myself more when I was a little kid that I didn't like something. But anyway, here we are. Just because you're good at it doesn't mean you need to.

Frank 57:38

Oh, you're gonna skip right over that, huh?

Shayna 57:39

We're gonna not air that out on the pod, at least not today. Maybe for maybe for a more um therapy version of our podcast, we can talk about childhood and how we sometimes don't get to choose our sports that we do as tr as children.

Frank 57:55

But anyway, I if you find something you're good at, should you walk down that road or should you skip it and because you can be good at a lot of things.

Shayna 58:04

Right. So yeah, that leads me to just be like, yes, I am an athlete. I could probably be good at a anything I wanted to be good at because I believe I'm an athlete, and that's all them that's all the belief I need. It's like I'm an athlete and I could be good at it. But am I gonna like it? Like, do I like doing it?

Frank 58:23

You like running, apparently.

Shayna 58:24

I l I fucking love running.

Frank 58:27

Yeah.

Shayna 58:28

I love running through the woods.

Frank 58:29

You look good when you're running.

Shayna 58:31

I uh it brings me so much joy.

Frank 58:33

It looks natural to run.

Shayna 58:35

It brings me so much joy to run.

Frank 58:37

And somehow your feet don't hurt like mine do you. No, seriously. I wish I could trade feet with you.

Shayna 58:41

I know, I'm reading Born to Run. I'm hoping that I can make run even better than I do right now.

Frank 58:46

But I'm scared of the time coming up at some point where I'm gonna have to pace you 40 something miles.

Shayna 58:53

I mean, you don't have to do anything. See, you have to figure out what you want to do.

Frank 58:58

Yeah, I want I want to keep training so I can be that person. Like I don't I don't believe right now that I could be a person that runs a hundred miles. I just don't believe it right now.

Shayna 59:07

I think you could.

Frank 59:08

Somebody would have to convince me of that.

Shayna 59:09

Well, I think you could if you wanted to.

Frank 59:11

Someone would have to tell me I don't think you could ever do that. That sometimes that works. Sometimes the negative motivation.

Shayna 59:17

Proving somebody wrong.

Frank 59:18

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Shayna 59:20

Be like, oh yeah, threaten me with a good time. I'll show you.

Frank 59:23

I mean, which one's better? If it if if it works, what difference does it make? I mean you'd rather reinforcement is better.

Shayna 59:30

Yeah.

Frank 59:30

Yeah. We get back to like like just in general, and just in life, sometimes like having someone have expectations of you can make a huge difference.

Shayna 59:39

Yeah.

Frank 59:40

Just like in a career or just the kind of person you want to be. Like, I mean, I've I've felt that. And I was talking, I mean, we were talking about the the night before the Leadville race and I how I get emotional and like Ken Ken becomes my dad that night. And he's he's telling me that you know he expects me to do this and he's proud of me, and like I that's what hits me, you know, because I that's something that I didn't get right, you know, growing up. So it fills that void for a little bit, you know, and and it's fine. Uh it feels good, and like yeah, I'm I'm I'm using him in that moment, you know, to build that energy. And I know it's all fake, but it feels real. He has some kind of energy because I mean I came across the first time I I broke what I I broke like sub ten. Mm-hmm. And I don't remember which race it was, but he's you know, he's there. He gets up out of his chair and he comes up and he's like, Oh, good job, son. You you broke 10 hours, and I'm like that. Thanks, Dad. That's what it felt like, you know. So yeah, it's fine. It's fine. What wherever you get that motivation and you know, you things you didn't get as a kid, someone else can feel that for you.

Shayna 1:00:56

Yeah. I mean I think I think yeah, just I at least identifying that and then realizing it about yourself and yeah, using it for some kind of motivation or understanding how other people could act as like a community for you. So I feel like I I could lean into that more because I sometimes just feel like I'm more as a person that really loves the team. I also feel like sometimes I'm just like a loner. I'm like I'm not I'm not sure how to interact with all the people all the time. Like, oh my god, this is so amazing, but I am like really bewildered by everybody all the time. Like there's so many people.

Frank 1:01:37

Um Yeah, you can get overstimulated pretty quickly, and I can too.

Shayna 1:01:41

Yeah, I know. And then you just take a break.

Frank 1:01:43

You just take a break by yourself and then and you recover and then come back to it when when it's okay to you, and like it's fine. Yeah, no one cares. Yeah, everyone asks about you. I know. So it's it's you know, and I tell you every time I make sure I share that with you to let you know that people want to like they like seeing you. They like seeing you at the group rides and they they like knowing what you're doing, and you're inspiring, and you're just an enjoyable person to have around. So that's why they're asking, where's Shana at? What's Shana doing? I mean they're being polite to me and nice to me because we're a thing, and but they also want to see you out there at the group rides.

Shayna 1:02:20

Yeah, and see, that's another thing that's hard to believe about myself when I like when you tell me those things, I'm like, Am I is there like what what's so special about me? Like I'm just running and like racing my mountain bike, and like for some reason I just like it doesn't seem like anything anyone should probably get worked up about, but in the same episode, I will literally talk about other people that I watch riding and running and being an inspiration and just like motivating and community and all that, but then somehow don't see myself as like an inspiration to other people. I'm like, no, I'm not the no, I'm not the inspiration here.

Frank 1:03:01

Like it's a little scary when you start to believe that. Yeah, no, but people are watching you also.

Shayna 1:03:05

Yeah, no, like no, I'm literally just like the potato, okay, on the side. Like I'm nothing to nothing to look at, nothing to see here. Just doing my training plan I made up all by myself, and um just doing events that are pretty hard, but nothing to see here.

Frank 1:03:23

I mean your discipline is striking, and just the being a person who's kind of unshakable, like you you've got a plan and you're gonna follow that plan and you you're not gonna cater to w what what other people want to do and I mean it's yeah, you just have this energy that's that's kind of cool to to watch.

Shayna 1:03:46

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Frank 1:03:47

If anyone I'm not gonna compliment you on every one of these podcasts, but well, I'm gonna find something bad to say about you eventually.

Shayna 1:03:53

No, I think my own brain does that for me. So yeah, if anyone like tried to like live inside here, they'd be like oh dang. So yeah, that's why I probably need some positive reinforcement. But thanks. Yeah, yeah.

Frank 1:04:07

I think we're it's about time to wrap this thing up too. Have we d have you covered everything we want to cover tonight?

Shayna 1:04:13

Well, yeah, I think so. I was just trying to make it a little simpler than the last couple times and just kinda yap about well the current training and events and stuff that occurred to me when I was watching documentaries and yeah, and I'm I'm not apparently cutting out all the dead space didn't work last time, so I'm not doing that this time.

Frank 1:04:32

So if there's too much dead space, you just speed this thing up and listen to it. Because this is how we talk.

Shayna 1:04:36

Yeah. I don't I don't sometimes we get excited and we we're gonna bounce back and forth and and just get crazy with it, but I think we're just trying to allow for like the socially acceptable pauses in between talking so we're not talking over each other, but we are probably too worried about that.

Frank 1:04:51

Right because listening to other podcasts, they do it all the time.

Shayna 1:04:54

Yeah, they do it. And you can hear them both because they both have good mics. So it's like literally fine. Like no one is shouting over top of the other one. But hey, you know what? This is episode six, so we're definitely getting the hang of it. Yeah. So yeah, we can we can wrap it up. I we put on fan mail in the show notes in the podcast. And if you're watching on YouTube, you should be able to go to podcast.duo athlete.com and send us fan mail. So if anyone has any questions for us or any feedback on the show, or yeah, if you're on YouTube, we have a podcast, and if you're on the podcast and you like watching YouTube, we're over there. All the places.

Frank 1:05:37

Yeah, somehow you got us on all the places. Good job.

Shayna 1:05:40

Thanks. I fixate on things for like six hours at a time and just get it done. So there's that. Okay.

Frank 1:05:47

All right, we're signing off.

Shayna 1:05:48

All right, y'all have a good one.