Shayna 0:00

Welcome to the Duo Athlete Podcast.

Frank 0:02

We're Shayna and Frank, a couple of athletes balancing training, racing, work, and life.

Shayna 0:07

This is where we talk about the honest version of endurance sports biking, running, relationships, and everything that happens between the workouts.

Frank 0:15

Bike, run, real life. Let's get started. Okay, so team dynamics. For team dynamics for unbound. So there were some old teammates that were going, and I told them that I wanted to try to, you know, stay with them for the 200 miles and try to work together because you know it's it's it's nicer to have some friends along than not be by yourself fighting the wind.

Shayna 0:42

Right.

Frank 0:42

And then some guys from our new team, you know, they wanted to try to hang on. So that was going to be five of us. Five of us at the start. And there's a little bit of it's a little bit of pressure because you want to, you know, try to keep people together. Try to not blow yourself up off the start so you can be there at the end, you know, to help out. Because that's that's kind of a bad feeling when you're getting help early on, and then you know, you can't help at the end because you can't even keep up. So you know, you don't know who's who's the strongest on the day and who's gonna ride a little too hard. You don't want to drop everybody, but yeah, so it's a little bit of pressure. It's also fun. You know, it's exciting when you're when you get to help out teammates and friends. So, you know, when you're when you're all alone and it's just your race, it's a little it's a little different dynamic. So yeah, I don't know. Um as far as the the team dynamics. So we had that title, but you were discussing running the team, and you know, I I was gonna ask you how that is, how do you feel about that?

Shayna 2:01

Right, yeah. When I saw team dynamics as a talking point, I yeah, my dynamics is a lot different because I am the president of the nonprofit team. So that's what I think of as trying to be a good leader or set a good example or a cat's gonna send me over the edge.

Frank 2:30

I mean, we could start the whole thing over. Set the cat up in another room.

Shayna 2:36

He just has the zoomies. I mean, we're only ten minutes in.

Frank 2:40

Yeah. So you actually what was it uh a year ago that there was uh the owner changed hands over a local bike shop and we didn't really have a team. I was on another team in Kentucky. It was Wood-N-Wave.

Shayna 2:57

A year it was over a year ago now because it was last it was last winter that we started even discussing putting a team together under new ownership at the local bike shop cycling solutions. So yeah, they changed hands and then we started putting a a team together. Um I I had a vision for it to be organized and try to get Evansville, you know, a lot of people in Evansville do race, but it just wasn't under an organized fashion or under a unified name, I guess. So just try to be I don't know, I was trying to be better for the community and try to get people together that already like they do race and then encourage more people to try to get out and race because it's good for you, because it's it's not just showing up to a race, it's everything that happens before you race. It's being concerned about your sleep, being concerned about how many carbs you're eating a day, it's being mindful of you know all the things what you're putting in your body, it's being researching training software. You know, I could go on a whole whole tangent about why being competitive is better for you just overall just to to ride a bike. You uh I you ride with a purpose.

Frank 4:40

Yeah, and you surround yourself with other people that that look up to you and you look up to them and they're out there training and kind of feed off each other so the team the team dynamic, you know, works out for everyone.

Shayna 4:51

Yeah, everyone pushes each other to be better. Or you can use each other as inspiration. So you see somebody with a little more experience than you, a little more miles under their belt, and you're like, Well, you know, with enough training, I bet I could I bet I could do that time. I could I could do that course, I could do that mileage.

Frank 5:14

Yeah.

Shayna 5:15

I could PR that, you know. So yeah, just the whole community effort putting together a team, it's I don't know, I like it so far. But again, it's uh when you're the leader of an organization, it you just look at it, you look at it totally different than being in a pack of riders, um, trying to help each other out through one race. I like I have a big, like a what they would call a 50,000 foot view of trying to make sure that everyone is happy and healthy and we're doing enough for the team themselves. Like there's no point in organizing all this if you're not trying to help the people out. You know, I didn't I didn't put all this together just to say, oh look what I did. I can organize stuff. Like yeah.

Frank 6:00

I mean it was a lot of work. It wasn't just the bike shop, we're just gonna make a team. You actually made a a nonprofit, like legit business.

Shayna 6:06

It's a five yeah, 501c3. It's a legitimate business filed with the state and the IRS and all that crappy stuff that goes along with it.

Frank 6:16

We have a board and we have officers and we do, we do.

Shayna 6:20

Well, I wanted it. I you can't do anything. Again, back to the team dynamics, you can't do anything like that by yourself. We I didn't start a podcast by myself.

Frank 6:30

You did not.

Shayna 6:31

I did not. It's not easy to do anything by yourself. And I'm gonna say that uh lots of people that accomplish great things do not do that by themselves. They have some sort of support system.

Frank 6:44

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, there's always there's always somebody in the background supporting, helping out.

Shayna 6:50

Yeah, like your crew.

Frank 6:51

Yeah.

Shayna 6:52

Your crew. So yeah, that's I mean, that's that's the dynamics for me, is I I worry about being a good leader. That's what it boils down to.

Frank 7:02

So how much time has that taken away from you personally, your training and when you have to think about the team, being the leader of the team?

Shayna 7:09

Well, it occupies my thoughts probably on a daily basis. Because we have the team chat that goes on, I check. Um, we're currently in the middle of organizing Dragons Back XC. So if you're listening to this and it's springtime, early summer 2026, you have time to sign up and complete the race. So that's a big that's also that's a whole other thing putting on an event. That's a whole other uh monster.

Frank 7:45

Yeah, we could we could spend time talking about just the race and what it's taken to get that just trying to be off the ground.

Shayna 7:51

Yeah, just trying to be a team on a board with sponsors and trying to organize a race and yeah, get that off the ground. That's its whole thing. You don't that doesn't even go along with being on a team, that just goes along with an entire topic of organizing an event. So yeah, that's takes up more time right now, which makes me feel bad because I don't think we've spent enough time on doing like team rides. Like we put a lot of energy into that last year.

Frank 8:18

Yeah.

Shayna 8:19

If I was just gonna go off on a side tangent, we put a lot of energy into doing team rides and making sure we got at least one mountain bike, like big mountain bike ride in and one big gravel ride in. And we have not done that yet, but that's also on my mind. So yeah, if you're asking like how much of this eats up my brain space, like it could be a lot. It could it depends on how much I got going on at work too. But don't tell my boss.

Frank 8:41

I mean, you could shut down everything that you're doing for yourself and focus all of it on the team and still still could do more. Do everything you could and still more. Yeah, like it does feel like this year, you know, because we haven't had the team rides that it feels like we've drifted a little bit, but we we still have time for that.

Shayna 9:01

Yeah, I'm not and that just might be a perception of ours because there's lots of people that are riding together and organizing rides and wearing the jersey and they're going to the group rides, and everyone seems like pretty solid on their training. You know, I follow everyone on Strava, like everyone looks pretty solid to me. So it could just be, you know, that's another thing that you get worried about, I guess, is like the perception. Like, am I doing enough? Like, is we missing out here, like but do we have missed opportunities to get people together? But I mean, we created a community, you know, the the Discord, the private, private Discord, so that everyone can chat at each other. So that's the best app or messaging platform I can think of to try to keep everyone together as a team and get communications out there.

Frank 9:51

Yeah, we're still we're still supporting each other and watching each other ride and train and giving each other kudos and comments and and it is early in the season, you know, the racing has just kind of started.

Shayna 10:01

Yeah.

Frank 10:02

We've got some big events that we're training for. But yeah, the race, the race that we're trying to put on is taking up a lot of brain space for sure. Like we me as the president of Evansville Mountain Bike Association, we've we've talked about putting on an event for a long time, but no one really wants to come together to you know, because everyone realizes realized how much work it was gonna be.

Shayna 10:24

Right.

Frank 10:25

And you know, so we focus on keeping the trails open and and it's cool that we get to collaborate with the race team, you know, because I'll be out there cleaning clearing the trail and and rebuilding some features that need to rebuild, and of course we'll be doing the timing and you'll be doing registration and yeah.

Shayna 10:46

I think that's a good collaboration, like that speaks to each organization's strengths. So the dragons back, you have a board of CycSol Racing that's pretty high energy and willing to put the time in to get it done. And in contrast, you have a board on EMBA that are very experienced. That's a very experienced board. That's a there's a lot of years on that board, and they you and they know exactly how to take care of trails and get things done and get it organized, and just on this really low-key, I guess, type. You're gonna have the trails are gonna be perfect, as perfect as they can be. If it doesn't rain, like that'll be the fastest the trails will ever be because EMBA's working on them, and you have the flip side, which is the CycSol board, putting in the hours doing registration and timing and the sponsorship coordination and getting tents out there and all the things that try to make an event like cool. I guess that was the other motivation too, was I don't want to be out there with a clipboard and a pencil with no like no technology kind of race, like all the things as a racer, like if I show up to a race and there's at least somebody with a megaphone and there's at least some place to look at timing, like that that means something to me that you put time into doing the race the correct way, or the way that I want to see results at least.

Frank 12:28

Yeah, I think there's a minimum of things like you can try to feel like you're going overboard with it with the podiums and the backdrop and the arch and you know the scoring, timing, the food trucks, and like we had all the ideas and it's sometimes it seems like a lot, but I mean if we can pull it off, it's gonna be a really cool event that you know people are gonna want to look forward to every year. So I'm kind of excited about it, and I think we can do it.

Shayna 12:50

Yeah, and it's again, yes, we want to organize a race because we love racing our bikes, but everyone that's organizing this race is not going to get to race their bike.

Frank 13:02

So it's I was getting ready to ask you something like that along those lines.

Shayna 13:06

So Yeah, like it's more about getting the recognition out at scales, getting the local there's not a local cross-country race anywhere. You have to drive two hours minimum to get to a cross-country race. I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's two hours to get to a cross-country race from here.

Frank 13:27

I might correct you.

Shayna 13:28

You are gonna correct me?

Frank 13:29

Well, I mean, there's Ben Hawe's is this there's a Ben Hawes's race. Okay, you're right.

Shayna 13:33

So there's Ben Hawes. That's new. But that's that's brand new. They just did that last year. Okay, so now we have two. We have two in the region.

Frank 13:40

Yeah, but you're you're talking about a Dino race, the Indiana, the Indiana series, and they're all they're all hours away.

Shayna 13:47

Well, any any race is hours away.

Frank 13:49

Yeah.

Shayna 13:50

Really? So it's more about getting the like, hey, like, there's a lot of people that ride at scales, and they ride scales a lot, but they're not gonna travel to go race. So I mean, one of our friends that we uh it kind of proves my point, one of our friends that we ran into at the grocery store was like, Oh, I'm preparing for this. Like she changed her she changed her routine to train for a race.

Frank 14:14

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Shayna 14:15

Right? Like if you want to think about the impact that you have on people, and that was one example. There's just one person that we put the bug in their ear. Hey, there's a race at scales, and like she's probably done 50,000 laps out there.

Frank 14:27

Well, yeah, that's the thing. That's that's every everyone that we know, that's their that's their local trail. Yeah. So they know every corner and every G out and every place to brake and accelerate and rest. And and so when you think, okay, there's a race that scales now, I've literally been training for this my whole career.

Shayna 14:46

Yeah.

Frank 14:46

You know.

Shayna 14:47

But even she said that she was putting in extra, she's putting in extra time to get ready for it.

Frank 14:53

So that's one person we're motivating to write a little more. At least to focus a little bit.

Shayna 14:57

Yeah, that that we've heard of. So you know there's more.

Frank 15:00

It's everyone who's signed up.

Shayna 15:01

Yeah.

Frank 15:02

Everyone's gonna be out there. They probably want to know, like I've got friends who are gonna support, you know, the from a couple hours away or at least an hour away, that don't really race XC anymore, but because we were we are trying to uh you know put on the race as a fundraiser and we've supported them, they're like, heck yeah. Like when when is it and when can we come and kind of get a tour of the course, which I don't necessarily know the course, but I'll just give them a tour of the whole the whole trail.

Shayna 15:30

Yeah, I think the course is uh technically a secret until I kind of think I know, but I mean it doesn't matter.

Frank 15:36

It's almost the whole trail.

Shayna 15:37

I was like, I think the race director is keeping that under wraps until we have to put out a information packet. So but yeah, but see that again, there's more community there with getting other I mean, they're from another state, they're in Kentucky. So once again, that's bringing more people together to race locally as a community.

Frank 16:03

Yeah, that's gonna be really cool. Having having all my friends at one spot.

Shayna 16:06

Yeah.

Frank 16:06

All my biking friends anyway. And what I was gonna ask you is because I remember um the YMCA, the director back then, was really into triathlons and he pulled some strings and he got an XTERRA to come to Scales Lake. And I was in the midst of like kind of rebuilding, opening up some sections of the trail that had been closed a long time. People had stopped riding there for a while and had gotten grown up, and so I was working on it a lot. I was a trail guy, and so they got with me to set up the the bike course. And of course, if you had people from all over the country coming to your local trail, I busted my ass.

Shayna 16:46

Right.

Frank 16:46

I raked that whole five miles, like like a weedy, just like drug a lawnmower around it and marked it, and you know, and then I the day of the race, I got to stand there and watch people racing on my home course, and I couldn't hardly stand it. Because I've never raced there. So I think that that year I decided I need to learn how to swim. Because if this is coming back, I'm doing this. So we're putting on this race at scales now, and we're gonna be doing the volunteering and watching people race on at scales. And how are you gonna feel about that?

Shayna 17:29

Right, I don't know, because my heat map is almost as red as everybody else's on Strava for the amount of laps I put in there. And it hasn't really crossed my mind, I guess, because I've just been neck deep in the admin process of it.

Frank 17:49

Well, maybe next year it'll kinda run itself or I doubt it.

Shayna 17:54

But you can be you could be hopeful. I'm not sure how I feel about it, because I've yeah, I would be one of the locals that one of probably yeah, one of the expert women would be racing against, and I know every every rock and root, and I know when somebody moves something. I know when two inches Where did that root go? Yeah, I know when two inches of a root is missed. Like I turned around and ran back over the weekend, like, hey, that root, that's not there anymore. Someone cut it. I see it. You're not getting by me. Because I not only do I ride out there, I run it. So I ride it one direction and I run it backwards. Yeah. Now I know both sides of that route and rock and the trees.

Frank 18:37

Yeah, we may not get to our our topics here because I I have a couple things that came into mind on the run yesterday. We were we were out running and and there was uh there was a teammate that was riding, and he's like, Oh, it's Frank and Shayna. And I thought that was pretty cool. Just, you know, I guess people can see our strava and that we run together and we ride together, and yeah, like you know, if he sees you, I'm I'm gonna be right behind you. Yeah. And so we're getting known as a you know, we're always doing stuff together, and that was pretty cool. And then another thing, though there was a younger kid that was out riding that I hadn't seen before. And I always have the urge to like talk about Emba and talk about the group rides and and try to you never know if someone just prefers to ride by themselves or just getting started.

Shayna 19:23

Yeah, but I just don't know.

Frank 19:24

Yeah, yeah, and and a lot of times when I invite people to the group rides, because I do it a lot, and they're like, Well, I need to I need to ride more before I show up. And you want to say, like, there's there's people showing up that we have to wait on, and no one cares. Like, people you just want to see new people join, but it's it's hard to get that thro oh across to somebody who's just starting out because they don't want they don't want to be waited on, they don't want to be the you know the last guy before the group rolls off again, or they just don't know where their skills are. So but I was thinking that like I like seeing younger people out on the trail, and we always want to try to get younger people involved in the club because you know we're all we've been doing it a long time and it's nice to have fresh faces and fresh ideas and somebody's gonna have to take over the club eventually. And so I think having this race might bring some people out that you know that we don't really know and we can hey, we can we can expand the family basically.

Shayna 20:27

Yeah. We yeah, we might be able to expand the the team a little. I don't know. You never know what's gonna happen when you s put on something they just you just wanna get the community together. Yeah. So I mean I'm sure we'll have I'm sure we can talk about it. When the next couple of steps when we get the more registrations in and more of the organization, we can we can keep talking about it. But yeah, it all it all circles back to we're on topic. That's that's team and friend and community dynamics for sure. So we're we're definitely on topic, but we can we can continue on to um how it is when you go to a big race like that and your partner can't. I only have so many PTO days a year at the moment, so yeah, you can talk about that a little.

Frank 21:19

Yeah, it's uh I mean I was I was used to doing stuff by myself, you know, before we met, and now I've gotten to where I like having you around. So it's uh that's good. It's a little tough. Yeah. It's a little tough to be in being away and the sag the SAG crew, you know, I I like seeing your face, you know. Yeah. And obviously, you know, you're you're racing and doing events too, so you're not the SAG crew. You know, I wanna I wanna support you whenever I can. Yeah. And I'm sure that if you you know you'd like to see me there, you know, handing you stuff or keeping you motivated. Especially when when something happens and you're stranded out there. Than it than in your, you know, five, six hours away.

Shayna 22:04

Right.

Frank 22:05

That's kind of tough. But it was nice to be able to call you on the phone and the headset and talk to you while I thought I was gonna be out there all night.

Shayna 22:13

Well it was definitely I could remote work that was a remote job trying to conjure up some help for you. Which eventually worked. What'd it take me, 90 minutes to get a car moving officially in your direction? And that was with calling people and trying to get other people's phone numbers.

Frank 22:32

Yeah. And when when when you're relying on like friends or somebody else who, you know, doesn't normally support you, you just kind of have to like I get what I get.

Shayna 22:43

Yeah.

Frank 22:44

You know, if something goes wrong, if they don't have something that I wanted, or me, I try to, you know, I you know, I still have that. I don't want to be a burden sometimes. Right. You know, issue. And so I okay, I I could want Tums and I could want the tools and the some kind of lube. And I mean I could make a big list like like other people do when they have their person there, but I'm like, I don't want to put that on you. So I'm gonna make up a pack of reservoir and I and have it already in a USWE pack or whatever, and so you just have to hand this thing to me because I don't want you to have to do too much. You know, you're not my person. I'm gonna ask the the least you know that I possibly can. And I mean they they probably wouldn't care, but that's just what happens to me, you know, when it's not someone who I'm used to supporting me, and I'm just kind of tagging along with what's already happening, which happens to me a lot. I mean I get invited to stuff a lot, you know. Hey, we're doing this, you know you want to sign up for it? Yeah, I do. And then it doesn't always work out that you can go and yeah.

Shayna 23:53

So I mean you've also gotten, I would say over the years you've gotten f uh faster, and then you have a certain expectation for how you want your sag stops to go. You've also become more aware of nutrition. Yeah. So you've become pretty like regimented on how you want your packs and how much how many carbs you want in your packs and how many how often you want one and exactly like I'm gonna say that your plan for something like Unbound and you mapping it out, or our plan that we put together for drop bags for like Cohutta Big Frog is vastly different than how you used to race.

Frank 24:36

Oh yeah, for sure. Because you didn't I forget that.

Shayna 24:38

Yeah, you didn't do all that before.

Frank 24:39

Like I'm trying to sound like I'm I'm super easy and I I'm not concerned about it, but you know, like I know what you're referring to, like the last the last Leadville. And I had I put electrical tape on the bottles and I put names on them for you know where they were gonna go because you and Molly were in two different spots.

Shayna 24:57

Yeah.

Frank 24:58

And and I had caffeine in some and I had different flavors that I wanted to switch up flavors, and and it was yeah, it seemed really regimented and kind of like that's a lot to think about. But it was also so you guys didn't have to think about much. Like you could look on the bottle and say, This is you know, this has got my name on it. I'm gonna have these bottles at Lost Canyon. This is inbound, this is outbound. Right. There's no question on what bottle I hand you. Right. I mean that's how it's kind of takes the pressure off your SAG person too, which is which is nice for them.

Shayna 25:30

Which I mean, yeah, that's how it that's how it should be. Like the rider or if you're a runner, this applies universally in any long distance event. Like the more you communicate and the more you write down and the more you label things, like the better it is for your crew. Especially if your crew is crewing for more than one person. But yeah, I can see where you don't want to ask for as much from somebody that's not your normal crew like me, because I know I know you better than everyone else, so I can see where it might feel like you're it might feel like you're being overwhelming to somebody that you don't really know if you want exactly you know if you start writing down in bullet points on note cards that you want exactly two and a half tums and one water bottle and a plain water bottle and like a sip of salt, like I don't know, like if you start being oddly specific, but you kind of want to be because you know what's gonna make your race go well.

Frank 26:37

Yeah, you're trying to make it, you know, everything line up and everything you can to not have any issues. And then this last at Unbound, I was really hoping that because I had a cooler and I had a pack and a bottle at each stop, each of the three checkpoints, but they were different because there were different time intervals in between the stops. So like a three-hour pack or two and a half I had two two and a half hour packs and one three-hour pack, you know, with different colors, packs, right? And I had that wrote down on a card. And I was really hoping that um our our SAG person they were gonna be able to park by the road and just have the cooler in the back of the truck or something, and I could just pull up and get my stuff out because I knew what I needed. But like the night before I found out that he couldn't park next to the road, next to the course. He was gonna load everything in a cart and drag it over there. That's all I'm saying. So I was like, that should be fine, except you know, he's got to do that for three people. And he's got three cards, and I've got three packs. You know, would it be a big deal if I got a three-hour pack in a when I needed a two and a half hour pack? Probably not. But and I mean that's that's one of the things we wanted to talk about is what's more stressful, being a racer or being a crew person? Because he was it was his first time, and like I had a black and an orange and a white pack, and then but Kevin also, or I think it was actually Isaac, he had a black USWE pack. We both didn't even realize it that we both wanted that black one for the at the first checkpoint. So our SAG person put everything in the cart that was on our car, but when he got there, it's like there's two UWSE packs laying there. I don't know which one's which now because they're not they're exactly the same. And I just put them in the cart and I now they're on the ground there, and then luckily I could luckily I had like a three-hour pack, so it was almost it was barely closing, so I could tell that which one was mine.

Shayna 28:35

But it's a fat U SWE pack laying on the ground.

Frank 28:41

It's very stressful when you're trying to support and chase riders. Yeah. I mean you can you could speak to that at Leadville.

Shayna 28:46

Yeah. Well, I would say my first yeah, the first Leadville, I was I had to have been more nervous than everybody else on the starting line because I couldn't even eat until you went by me. I don't know. I was a I was a a ball of nerves. I don't know. It feels like your crew could make or break your race too. You you know that if you mess something up, you just messed up somebody's race. And it's not just their race, it's they've been training for that for how many months now. Like, don't be the person that messes it up. Yeah. Like that's I don't know, that's the pressure I feel as crew is like don't mess this up. Memorize the note card, have everything laid out, but don't lay it out too early. Don't let the pack get hot on the ground. You still want to be cold. And don't make sure make sure none of the hoses got pinched because when I crewed for more than one person at Leadville, now now I gotta keep everyone's stuff straight. And I also had to cart that stuff up a gravel road for 17 miles at least. Of course it was. Yeah, it does feel like it. It's yeah, it's uphill both ways to the truck and back. That the it's not smooth. Like you think when you're driving up, that's another thing too. Like, that's all hidden labor. Like when you drive up to the sag area, you're like, okay, yeah, that's cool. Like the sag area is where we're gonna set my canopy, like, alright, yes, where crew belongs, okay, just park the truck, whatever. But then like you load that stuff in a car, and even if your cart has like bigger wheels on it, and you start dragging it and the wheels are wobbling and it's shaking your arm, and it's like is it it your back is murdered by the time you get to the part where you even get to set up your canopy. Your back and your arm and your shoulder is already murdered, and you gotta go back down to the truck 'cause you couldn't fit everything in it in the first pass. Like, yeah, and we're just like, yeah, no, no, I'll crew for you. Yeah, I'll crew for you for free. That's fine. No big deal. That's fun. Let me just stress myself out with all of the USWE packs and bottles and three people I need to hand stuff to and set up a canopy.

Frank 30:52

Yeah, yeah, and you can't, you know, some people want to ride by and not stop and grab stuff.

Shayna 30:59

Yeah, which I'll give them an option if they want to. You can stop if you want to.

Frank 31:02

But they need to tell you that. You're like, you need to tell your SAG crew what your expectations are.

Shayna 31:06

Yeah. Well, right, because some people have like come up, they have like mini meltdowns, so many mini meltdowns. Like the rider rolls up and like they want their stuff immediately and they wanted it on their back immediately. Like they were throwing stuff down.

Frank 31:23

This is not any of us.

Shayna 31:24

They've oh yeah, of course. Of course, yeah. Nobody that I've ever seen or known. Um, yeah, they they wanted their stuff yesterday. So and then other guys roll up and like they're totally chill. So again, that will that goes back to kind of if you're crewing for somebody on your team, like you better you might want to get to know them a little bit, and you might want to figure out if they're gonna be a little high maintenance on that day, which is fine. They can be whatever kind of rider they want to be, but you should be prepared for that if you're gonna crew. Should be prepared if somebody's gonna come in and be hot, or you know, or if you think that they're gonna come in hot but in r and they're not and something's wrong, that's also a little bewildering to be the crew person and the only person, and you see them and you're like, They're not they're not doing good, but I don't know how to fix that either. Like, I don't have any tools to fix whatever's happening with them, and they're not gonna tell me that either because we don't know each other that well. Like, I'm not gonna be able to fix you. I'll hand you your pack, here's your pack, and here's what you asked for per the note card and carry on about your way.

Frank 32:33

But yeah, that's when you can't internalize things that are out of your control, and and you know, the the racer gives you their expectations and as long as you meet those, that's all you can do. Like if they if they ask for something else and you have it available.

Shayna 32:49

Yeah. I don't know, I just feel like as the crew person you kind of have a responsibility to like you know like nobody in the middle of Leadville actually has all of their brain cells put together to articulate what they need. So yeah, I mean they can communicate that beforehand, like hey, previously on this course, or hey, when I've raced before, but then also like if you're an experienced crew member, maybe you could make a call for them to give them something extra.

Frank 33:21

Yeah. It's been my experience, my limited experience, that racers don't really make the best SAG crew. Like the people that are used to doing the SAG crew and have experience at it, and they know, like, Molly knows that if I ask something, if I say, Hey, make me drink water when I come in, or take off my tell me to take off my arm sleeves, or when I get there, I don't remember any of that.

Shayna 33:49

Yeah, you just have to do it for them.

Frank 33:51

So you have to yeah, you have to do it for them. And because when I when I had a couple racers at Leadville one year, and I said, like, I'm gonna come in and get just switch packs out or just switch bottles out, but I I want you to have a bottle of just water, and I don't ever drink enough water, so remind me, like hand me the bottle of water and say, Here, take a take some swigs of this. And I got in there and they're all nervous and they're giving me stuff, and then I just take off and I get a mile away and I was like, crap, I didn't drink any water. Like all day I was like not remembering, and nobody was remembering it was it was fine, but right somebody who's experienced at that and knows that the racers aren't thinking and they're just they just want to get in and out and get their stuff that they know they need, and those little extra things that they want, they're not gonna they're not gonna remember to ask for that.

Shayna 34:39

So Right, because you're not you're not in that headspace. You're not really even expected to be in that headspace. That's why you wrote it down or asked for it, or did I mean we did the pre like a pre-ride meeting, like a crew meeting, basically, to get all this ironed out, which I think is a good thing to do. I'm also kind of I'm reflecting on um some of the blog posts and some of the things I've seen when you crew for an ultra. And it's it's very similar. Like everyone's kind of doing like their post Cocodona like blog posts, and they're talking about crewing a little bit and like what you need to do as a successful crew member for your racer.

Frank 35:23

That's gotta be way tougher when they're out there for days.

Shayna 35:26

Days. I mean It is hallucinating. It is, but like if you expect your Leadville racer to not have any brain cells either, it's the same thing. It's it's the same thing. You're you're at altitude and you come in with a blank slate of a face and no thoughts because you just ride your bike. It has to be I I don't want to say it's the same thing. It has to be eerily similar to watch a runner come in hallucinating and like lack of sleep and just know that you have the responsibility to take care of them the way that they told you to in the pre-race meeting. They said, Hey, this is how I want to run my race, this is plan A, B, and C, this is how I want my SAG and then if you're an experienced crew member, then you can probably start to make calls based on their condition because the races don't always go to they don't always go to plan. But yeah, I think that I mean the dynamics of being a crew member and you could have you can have a whole conversation on how to be a good crew member and you can turn around and then have a whole another conversation about the logistics of the actual the race and the planning for the race and organizing and figuring out your your pace plan, uh how many carbs you need, what your liquid's gonna be, what your sodium's gonna be, what nutrition you want at what sag stop. Because you have to do all that work in advance of your crew even getting the note card. Like you have to do all that pre pre-planning spreadsheeting, yeah, like the I mean I I did one long distance mountain bike race so far in my career. Big frog. The actual s sheet that I made myself for my drop eggs looked crazy.

Frank 37:22

Did you enjoy it though? Like did you enjoy the process of figuring out and doing the math and what are you gonna need for each stop, how far away the stops are, and because I I kind of enjoy that part.

Shayna 37:34

Yeah, I do. I do like that. And if you can sit down and work through that in your head, then I feel like that sets you up better for your race because you kind of have the race like broke down into tiny chunks in your brain of like what needs to happen every several hours. So like we did for Oak Mountain 50K. Like we knew where the sags were, we knew how many gels we wanted to pick up, we knew you know if we were gonna stop or not, or what we wanted to pick up, or but yeah, that kind of breaks the race down a little bit too for you. So it doesn't seem like one big giant race that's insurmountable and overwhelming to think about. Like, no, you just break it down into every two or three hours for your SAG.

Frank 38:22

Yeah, break it down into eight mile runs stacked on top of each other.

Shayna 38:26

Yeah, because you have, I mean, a lot of from what I've seen just on my research for the couple of ultras that we're doing this year in the long distance mountain bike things that we're doing, it's like you're never really two or three hours away from a sag stop. And like that's that's doable. The only exception is gonna be Marji, which I haven't I haven't gotten into Marji too much on like SAG stops because that is something that does feel like a little overwhelming, and I if every time I open that GPX file, I'm like, oh and then I decide I'm gonna look at the nighttime 50k logistics instead.

Frank 39:03

I could tell some stories on Marji because I like if the question is, is it more stressful to race or be a SAG crew? And in my opinion, it being SAG is way more stressful because I sagged for a buddy last year at Marji and I I mean I've been on the other side, so I know how you want everything ready, and and he's a guy who wants it on the fly. Yeah, usually. And he's you know, calculated it down to the seconds. He's trying to get that buckle.

Shayna 39:31

So he was buckle chasing also.

Frank 39:33

Yeah, so you can't you can't mess that up.

Shayna 39:35

No. So can't be your fault.

Frank 39:37

I watched him start and you know he we took his truck and he knows this, but whenever he took off, I'm like, there's limited parking at the first sag area. And I wouldn't say I'm um rally driving his uh truck down the gravel roads, but I made it to the first sag in 35 seconds. Yeah, I mean you're you're and I had hours.

Shayna 39:58

Mm-hmm.

Frank 39:58

And I could s I could I could see his location, but you can't relax. No, you can't go mess around. You get the table set up, you get all the stuff set out way too early, and then a half hour later, other people start coming in and sitting there. I had the best spot though.

Shayna 40:14

Right. Well, I didn't even watch I mean I'm just like telling stories to relate to you, but I didn't really watch the start of Leadville. I was driving your truck down Lost Canyon Road. I was there right as soon as they said that you were allowed to be there.

Frank 40:29

Yeah, and I'm there three hours later, but yeah.

Shayna 40:32

You yeah, literally, that is the right before you guys climb up Columbine. So I had hours upon I mean I probably could have drove to a truck stop and ate breakfast, telling it went back and then drug all this stuff up there, but it didn't feel like that. It did not feel like I had that kind of time. It felt like I could I parked the truck, I was still too far away somehow, even though I was one of the first ones there. I was still too far away to drag all this stuff up there. I had no time to do any of it. I felt like I had no time to sit down before the I mean, and it was literally I had everything set up and I was like, alright, I'm gonna take a little break over here at these porta potties. The elites were coming through. I mean the elites were literally coming through. I'm like, I see I I literally don't I don't have time.

Frank 41:13

Yeah, and of course we're right behind the elites, right?

Shayna 41:16

In my mind you were. You were gonna you were drafting off the elites, all of you.

Frank 41:20

Yeah, I was right behind Keegan. Tucked. All of you super tucked because he's he's a small guy.

Shayna 41:25

Yeah. That's what it feels like though in your crew.

Frank 41:28

Like well, also at some point you're if you're gonna sag for people or crew for people, you're gonna have to be the motivator in chief also.

Shayna 41:35

Yeah.

Frank 41:36

Because they're gonna want to quit. And I mean that happened. I don't know how much he won't really wanted to quit, but I think he realized he wasn't gonna buckle the third time, or the second time he came through the same sag, I was there for both. He didn't have to move, which was nice, but and he, you know, it like he could see the truck and he's like, I think I'm done. I'm I'm spent, I don't have anything left. And I was like, You're you're so close.

Shayna 41:59

Hey, you look great.

Frank 42:00

Yeah. You're like, oh, you have to you only have this far to go, and if you only have you only have to do this mile per hour, you know, to get the buckle, you can still do it, you know. Let's go. Like, I'm uh let me go get your lights, and you know, he did he I don't know how much he really wanted to quit, but in my mind it was like you're gonna feel so much better after you f like if you don't finish it like the next day, you're just gonna be mad and you're gonna be mad for a while. And I mean he's obviously gonna come back because he didn't buckle, but you know, when he did actually finish, he looked way better than than at the last SAG and he was you know happy and he was thinking their their race director, like this is a great event, and yeah, spirits were up.

Shayna 42:41

So Yeah, I mean never nothing is ever permanent, especially on the race course. Like you could be having the worst time ever. And then you get uh some carbs, you get a fresh pack, you get some cold liquid, and yeah, now all of a sudden you like you feel way better. So get some salt a

Frank 43:03

Yeah, that feeling of n of of DNFing and then dealing with that is is not fun because I'm I still I'm still dealing with that. Like seeing all the videos from Unbound and all the friends you finished and everyone's a race week. There was a whole lot of stuff I didn't get to see out there. You know, 150 miles of the course I didn't get to see and yeah. And there's no guarantee I'll get in next year, like I'm gonna try, but it's a lottery, it's not like you can just sign up.

Shayna 43:28

So Well, you're gonna try to go for a qualifier, aren't you?

Frank 43:31

Yeah, I'm gonna uh yeah. But we talked about that. Hey, what do you think about me signing up for Big Sugar even though I wasn't gonna do it and you know, we've got all these other events and but it became it became a priority all of a sudden because you know I didn't finish this race, so now I gotta go, you know, slay that dragon.

Shayna 43:48

Right. Well, uh yeah. My only point when I was when you're asking me was to just say, Hey, like you were really not really into this race before you left for the race and you're talking about doing other super demanding thing around the same time frame so I was just trying to gut check a little bit like are you are you sure like that's are you sure that's the race you wanna spend all your energy on just double checking before you sign up for a qualifier but yeah I mean this

Frank 44:14

I mean sure part of this podcast is talking about being in a relationship and doing these things and I can I can be honest and say that that initial like I I know you know you you've mentioned wanting to be a part of decisions and of course that's a big decision and that's a lot of money and we're we're living together and making budgets and talking about our finances so yeah I can't just willy nilly sign up for a $200 or whatever you know race without without at least having your input.

Shayna 44:40

I at least want to feel like a part of the decision.

Frank 44:42

Yeah but when you s when you started saying are you sure that you wanted like you this wasn't on your mind and so I got that little twinge of hey wait a minute are you telling me I can't race? I don't know if I like this.

Shayna 44:53

But yeah no I'm never telling you you can't race. I'm just trying to just trying to be the gut check like mmm lots of emotions here lots of emotions around unbound not sure if that's gonna be something you actually wanted to do. But if it is like that's fine.

Frank 45:08

Yeah and I knew to that like okay take a minute like you're upset. Yeah and you you know you didn't get to finish this race and you're seeing all the videos and you you're upset. So take a minute just sit with that sit with that pain and actually ask yourself if it's something you actually want to do and

Shayna 45:28

but I think that's how everybody signs up for every race. It's like it's probably not a logical decision. Isn't I mean where in the world would it be a logical decision to sign up for half of the stuff that we do sign up for? So yeah it has to be emotion. And then you just have to put some like systems and processes and a little bit of discipline and some motivation and some inspiration behind all that and and then you show up to the race trained for it. But it's probably just pure emotion when you do sign up for it. You're like oh my god that'd be so much fun. Wouldn't that be so cool to tell everybody that I ran a 50K? Like wouldn't that be so cool to tell myself I ran a 50K? Like that seems out of this world to do that and then I trained all winter for it. I was like wow I ran a 50k and

Frank 46:15

then you wonder what can I actually where is my limit I'm not sure where it's at

Shayna 46:19

yeah well laying in the hotel bed that's off on a tangent for sure but laying in the hotel bed like feeling half crippled with weird toe blisters and I'm like very weird very strange toe blisters and I'm like you know I'm just gonna what else what else is on ultra sign up though? I mean I'm just checking my results but like what other things are out there? Because I just finished this I just finished this and I like I negative split the last couple miles a little bit yeah the like what what else

Frank 46:51

on the last five miles with your negative splits wait a minute what happened to the pace we were running all day what are you doing

Shayna 46:59

it was downhill yeah it was full send but yeah it was like okay so what else can I do? But yeah that's all that's pure emotion you just finished a race you're wrecked absolutely destroyed and then you get some you get some DoorDash and relaxation time and you're scrolling the signups again you're like oh man I I could probably do more I could probably run further I could probably run faster I could probably run further and faster that could beat my time but yeah I don't know like off on a off on a tangent amount no that's races being emotional

Frank 47:32

but yeah we could talk about the the excitement and the adrenaline rush addicting addictive nature of being on the start line and competing and then when the when it's over and you're just back to your job that's when you start what's next.

Shayna 47:47

Yeah it is well yeah going back to your job is the worst it is it's the worst you just did like the hardest thing you've ever done in your life so far that weekend you go back to your job and you open up your work email into the company newsletter about the whatever the hell and you're like this is such a let down. Yeah this is this is dumb compared to what I just did. Okay let me go back to my spreadsheet trackers and my emails and my meetings and stuff people wanting me to do things for them.

Frank 48:22

Yeah and it's it's hard to to to let people know what you actually just did. I mean I I do have people asking me like I tell 'em you know because they now they're like what where are you riding at this weekend? Like where are you going? What what event you got? And you know obviously we won't have an event every weekend but more often than not I can say I just got back from North Carolina or I just got back from Georgia or Yeah. You know wherever and okay how many miles did you do? You know everybody knew that I you know I had two hundred miles. That was my longest event and so how was that?

Shayna 48:51

Well you know had to tell them a story. Yeah. People in my office were asking before I moved offices they were asking me a little bit about what I was doing and where I was going and they seemed they seemed genuinely interested but also it's probably really hard for them to understand of course really what it is that you go through or do or what kind of training schedule you put yourself on. But yeah we can have a whole extra podcast on that we don't have to get off on a crazy

Frank 49:23

No I think this is gonna be our podcast because it's just conversations that we normally have and it's just real. Yeah. It's real world it's real being in a relationship and training for events. Like you some people ask me like you well how do you like that's crazy. You wrote a century over the weekend and to me it's like when I look at my phone and Strava because I follow way too many people and I try to give everybody kudos so I I see a lot of it. There's a hundred people on there it seems like that are doing more than I am. So it doesn't seem like anything to me.

Shayna 49:55

Right.

Frank 49:55

But to the average person that doesn't cycle or run they think we're lunatics. Yeah they do know it's so it's all relative so whatever group you're in you know like I I seem like a lunatic to the people that I work around but then when you go on a group ride like you're slacking. I haven't seen you ride in a in a day like what's going on with you?

Shayna 50:14

Yeah I mean yeah let's let's think about that we seem like we're the fittest people on earth to our co-workers. Yeah we're not and then we show up to I'm not we show up to like a run or I go to a mountain bike event and I'm like mid to back of the pack. At best check like at best. Also I know like I understand that was the first couple of times the first two long distance events I've done I'm talking about Big Frog and Oak Mountain again. Clearly when you do an event for the first time you're gonna have more on the table but you have to to just do it for the first time because you don't even know what to expect. But yeah at work but she's crazy. You're crazy. You're doing two workouts a day you ran how many miles over the weekend you did you went where with your mountain bike at what time in the morning? Yeah you're gonna the gym before work going to the gym before work and you're doing uh another workout after work is yeah like we do all this stuff and it's like yeah I did all that and then I'm just I'm gonna finish like not last but like I'm not even on the podium though. Like I've been doing all this work to be like mediocre at this sport.

Frank 51:23

No you're getting really good. Every time every time we mountain bike together I notice some extra things that you're doing better and thanks you're doing really good.

Shayna 51:34

It's just funny to me. Like I I know I put I'm putting I'm putting in work I don't have room to grow for sure. This is the first year of like what you would consider an ultra endurance year for me. Um yeah just a stark contrast of when you show up to a field of other competitors other compan other competitors are also amateurs like they have nine to five jobs too and it's like yeah I mean I finished a hundred and thirty out of a hundred and fifty Yeah.

Frank 52:03

I mean how much time do you have to train? That's that's the big question and I think I mean we have a a un a unique kind of experience where like we're spending time together when we're training.

Shayna 52:15

Right.

Frank 52:15

Yeah and you know I feel fortunate that I'm not having to spend time away from my loved ones to to train like some people have to make that decision and it's really cool to be able to ride with you and train and run and it's quality time for us when we're out you know getting better and getting fitter and we both we both want to eat well and get you know we're both trying to put more emphasis on getting enough sleep so we can motivate each other hey like your your uh your watch alarm was going off during the podcast like it's it's bedtime you know sometimes we don't make it in bed when we're supposed to but yeah I've been getting a lot more sleep yeah lately and you you know you can see your HRV going up. It's been good. It's been good for me.

Shayna 53:01

Yeah speaking of that I guess we should I guess we should wrap it up so we can get ready for this this week in training we still didn't get to the other No we didn't make it halfway through the well yeah and it's fine.

Frank 53:14

The proposed agenda list of things we want to talk about and then we'll just talk get off on tangents and you know it'll be interesting or not. People want to listen to it. But it's real. These are the conversations we have not on camera. So do you want to sign off?

Shayna 53:29

I guess so yeah because we need to go to bed so we can get up at five get up at five and do our training and go to work and do our second training after work. Yeah I can tell we were sitting here for a while because my hip started to cramp up after the cat was sitting on it and I was like well Katza was being such a good boy. He is being a good boy I'm just gonna look like I'm lounging out now because my hip got stiff but that's also very real over an hour. Yeah. Okay. Well at some point in the future we'll talk about our two different training plans they're trying to train together and I still haven't gotten talk about my DIY fuel and by the time I get by the time we talk about it I'll have all kind of I'll have all kind of feedback on that. Yeah.

Frank 54:12

Get get feedback.

Shayna 54:14

Yeah and the AI and training but you might have to we might have to re-record the beginning to try to get the introduction right.

Frank 54:22

Yeah whatever we need to do it'd be Okay.

Shayna 54:24

Well episode three yeah this was episode three like and subscribe we'll put more episodes out we're working on it. I'm uh editor creative director over here working on our software yeah I'm gonna clearly this is like the first three episodes we've ever done in our life so we're we're getting it.

Frank 54:42

Yeah it feels natural now.

Shayna 54:44

Okay good good yeah like and subscribe and then we'll see you again next week.

Frank 54:49

Okay. Goodbye